Talk:Thales of Miletus

This claim is made:

He was also credited with discovering the position of the constellation Ursa Major.

It is very unclear what this is supposed to mean. The Greeks knew of that constellation and they would have known quite well where in the sky to find it, so "discovering the position" makes no sense.

It is possible that he was the one to point out Ursa Minor to the Greeks, the Phoenicians having known it and used it for navigation.

This definitely needs a reference and clarification. Dismalscholar (talk) 04:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

O'Grady (2005) Meet the Philosophers of Ancient Greece has "He gave astronomical advice of economic importance on navigation by suggesting that sailors steer by the constellation Ursa Minor as a more accurate method of navigation than Ursa Major." –jacobolus (t) 06:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Apparently one source of this claim is a poem by Callimachus, Iambus 1: "[The son] sailed to Miletus, since the victory belonged / to Thales, who was otherwise supple in judgment / and was said to have delineated the little stars / of the Wagon, by which Phoenicians sail." –jacobolus (t) 07:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

A significant -maybe - point is that at Thales' time ("epoch" in an astronomical sense), the north celestial pole didn't point to within a half-degree of Polaris, but was well away towards Thuban (I forget which constellation). So proposing using Ursa Minor as a *guide* to the "north" direction would have been a *change* to current practice. If, indeed, there was a "current" practice.

The projection of the north-geographic pole onto the celestial sphere changes on about a 22500 Yr cycle because of the precession of the Earth's axis. The proper motion of stars is also an issue generally, but minor in this case.

AKarley (talk) 20:18, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

In the olive presses section it is stated that: A story, with different versions, recounts how Thales achieved riches from an olive harvest by prediction of the weather. In one version, he bought all the olive presses in Miletus after predicting the weather and a good harvest for a particular year. Another version of the story has Aristotle explain that Thales had reserved presses in advance, at a discount, and could rent them out at a high price when demand peaked, following his prediction of a particularly good harvest. This first version of the story would constitute the first historically known creation and use of futures, whereas the second version would be the first historically known creation and use of options.

This is incorrect. The latter version of the story is indeed an example of an option if Thales had the right, but not the obligation to purchase or rent the presses. The first version of the story, however is not an example of a forward contract. A forward contract gives the long party the right and the obligation to purchase a given asset at a certain date. The first example given is just a generic example of purchasing something. The source cited correctly makes this distinction, but it seems to have been missed by the editor.

Additionally, the correct term would be forwards not futures since there is no exchange or standardized contract. HumanBeeng2123 (talk) 05:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

This page needs an audio sample linked to the phonetic pronunciation of his name Tomhannen (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

TS Ren, in his conceptual history of Europe, argues that 'Water' as the arche referred to 'fluidity' as a first principle of the kosmos, not to a material element. He argues that the Milesians were a school, not individuals, and that Aristotle separated out their common ideas about a divinely created (theon apeiron) fiery-aery fluidity as the eternal unchanging principle underlying an ever-changing physical reality (phusis). [Ref: www.trd3.com, Volume 2] ~2026-77989-9 (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2026 (UTC)

It is generally concidered that the tradition of criticism started with the Enlightenment or especially for the Scientific revolution approximately 500 years ago...

Nevertheless, now Logan Chipkin from the Conjecture Institute writes:

"One of the Thale's great epistemological discoveries was that progress requires a tradition of criticism, which he concretized in the founding of his famous Milesian School."

If understood, Chipkin's source was Patricia F. O' Grady's Thales of Miletus.

Sources plus more info:

Conjectureinstitute. org

If no counterarguments or proper and preventive criticism emerge, then we should improve the article by adding the section of "tradition of criticism".

Please, take your mind plus time to consider. Kartasto (talk) 16:03, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

As far as I can tell the "Milesian school" is just a name given to three philosophers who lived in Miletus within a generation of each-other, as a group, not any kind of formal institution. So talking about "concretizing" anything by "founding" this school seems pretty misleading. –jacobolus (t) 17:06, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Did they developed the idea of criticism in order to reach progress, that is the question, is it? Kartasto (talk) 17:35, 11 May 2026 (UTC)