User talk:4TheWynne

Hi. I'm doing some mitigated live tests with my AFL Tables bot. To test this properly, sandboxing alone isn't enough. I'll try to revert things that aren't useful ASAP from now on. Electricmaster (talk) 11:33, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

@4TheWynne

Hi. So I've been doing some more testing with the AFL Tables stats bot and have noticed a few things that are easily missed on random player pages such as totals not adding up correctly (bottom detailed stats are usually the problem) or not being synced with the main info stats. The bot managed to detect these successfully. I have done some dry run, and it seems to be working amazingly well now. It's still not ready for prime time, but it's definitely on the way there. For technical reasons, I may need to continue doing some live edits to ensure things sync as intended, although 95% of testing will be done in a pseudo sandbox.

However, before I start rolling out any code at scale, I'd like your input on some things. For one, it seems there's some inconsistency between whether a player who is listed in the side but hasn't played any games in a season should have that year included in that year's row. Personally, I think it makes complete sense to include blank seasons as long as the player is listed for an AFL team, but I'd like confirmation/consensus on this. Secondly, I think the inclusion of a Brownlow vote column is rather useful, although I think it only makes sense to add it if a player has registered at least one vote in their career. How do you feel about this? Also, are there any additional changes you'd like to see? I'm going to chip away at this over the week. I think I can do it. The real test will be after Round 1 is complete. Speaking of which, is there a consensus for how rounds should be written in an article? For example, I've seen Round 7, round 7, round seven. I have my opinion, but again I'd like to know what the consensus is, if one exists.

Additionally, once I have a ready-to-run code commit, would you be open to running the code yourself at a later stage to check if I'm missing anything? Also, I have some ideas for sharking Supercoach and AFL Fantasy. Let me know if you'd be interested in contributing to that. Thanks for your patience, and well done on all the incredible work you have done to enriching Wikipedia over the years.

Cheers. Electricmaster (talk) 13:39, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

P.S. How did you put in those badges in your profile? Also, how do I even check my credits that would even be valid? Despite doing this for over 16 years, a lot of this technical stuff goes over my head. Sorry for the wall of text! Electricmaster (talk) 13:45, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Personally, I agree that listing blank seasons makes sense if a player was listed, and that's how I make sure to keep the statistics table I update. Regarding the Brownlow, what I've seen the players who have registered at least one vote, have it included in their statistics table. Don't know about official consensus for either of those though. --SuperJew (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Btw, a bot to keep these updated sounds great! Well done working on it! :) --SuperJew (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Electricmaster, thanks for clarifying (and for the kind words). Yes, blank seasons should always be included, same with Brownlow votes (not just limited to players that receive at least one vote), and rounds shouldn't be capitalised (e.g. round 7) unless it's a title/header or used at the beginning of a sentence; all of these have been pretty set in stone for a while, even if it isn't reflected everywhere just yet (can only cover so much ground at once). If I have time, then yeah, I'll have a go at running the code; the main things to watch out for are that averages should be to one decimal point (e.g. 23.66 → 23.7; 1 → 1.0), highlighted cells (premiership, stats leader and B&F) need to factored in, and the new line should start with the games cell; for example:

|-
| [[2017 AFL season|2017]] || {{AFL|Ess}} || 4
| 20 || 2 || 6 || 194 || 278 || 472 || 97 || 84 || 0.1 || 0.3 || 9.7 || 13.9 || 23.6 || 4.9 || 4.2 || 0

Otherwise, do you mean the userboxes or the topicons (top right of the page)? 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 13:35, 12 January 2026 (UTC)

Would you be interested in testing the public version of the bot?

https://github.com/ska234/AFL-Tables-Public

If yes, you need to create a bot account if you don't have one. I'm currently developing a self-running file that's hosted online. What this will effectively do is ping the AFL Tables servers every 20 minutes to check if new games are added; if a change is detected, it will push an update. In other words, the project will be 99% fully automated, with the remaining 1% being only minor code tweaks as they may be needed. I guess theoretically it will continue to run forever (or as long as github.com is a functioning website lol). What I'd like you to do is a limited run of 10 to make sure it works on your end. At any rate, please let me know if you're interested. Electricmaster (talk) 12:23, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Electricmaster, yeah, can definitely look into it soon. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 14:50, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

Electricmaster replied to my comment and it pinged me (just like I'm doing right now to you). Do whatever you want on your user page. Just beware if you try to own public articles in this way and as you've done before. --SuperJew (talk) 19:05, 11 May 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure of what you mean by that. If you're talking about the bot updates, the whole point of having this bot shared is to have inbuilt redundancy. I may be completely misinterpreting what you're saying, though. Electricmaster (talk) 02:30, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. I've had a change of plan. I'm going to do a full live edit now. Whenever you're ready to test, simply rollback one of my pages that is current with only a stats update; that is, one that hasn't been subsequently been edited by another user, which should be the vast majority of them. You can then manually process that page using 7. Manual Player Scan. Cheers. Electricmaster (talk) 02:40, 12 May 2026 (UTC)

Has there been a news article that has been missed for the AFL Origin squads or is it confirmed to have only 21 players a team? Theres only 21 players on the page for each squad so it would appear 2 on each side are missing unless its confirmed to be 21 a side. I also recall seeing a post on instagram showing the teams with 22 players on each side and pointing out only Richmond and North Melbourne do not have representation in either squad.

Also what do we do for players who pull out of the squad? We have one player from WA (Brandon Starcevich) who will most likely pull out due to him straining his ACL (https://x.com/i/status/2016011993598267841) and I am pretty sure multiple players in the victorian squad have injury concerns too. Would it be a notes section like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFLX_tournament ?

EDIT: Additional question because you have probably done the grand final pages before, I am trying to get the kits up on the Sirengate controversy page however I was wondering how am I meant to do the kits? St Kilda's should be easy enough but Fremantle were wearing their white guernsey with the purple anchor on the day, and I do not know how do do that guernsey, by any chance are you able to help? I have included a youtube video so you can see what guernseys were being used. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3MuEVybS7M)

Edit 2: My bad, just read somewhere that there are more announcements this week apparently. Are you able to help me with the second and third questions though btw? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flipstatic Energy (talk • contribs) 11:14, 1 February 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy (talk) 15:26, 27 January 2026 (UTC)

Hey, currently since the season has started and the coaches still are not added, the 2026 AFL Season page just does not look good also it does not give the information that someone viewing the page might want to find. Can we please add the respective coaches temporarily without the source while we look for the specific suitable sources which you want? Just so the information can be there because lets face it we need to either be fully looking for the source or accept that the source does not exist.

Also on my Previous Question How do I do those specific guernseys on the wikipedia page? Flipstatic Energy (talk) 10:21, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, no... stop asking to add the names without sources; that is never the solution, and you repeatedly asking only makes me want to help you less. Ask someone else about the guernseys, as that's not my area of expertise. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 15:53, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

I have asked a total of two times (Actually I have asked only once and that is this time the other time was me saying theres no point not adding them in). Also you are missing the fact that this is a temporary solution (Having no name there will stop the article from reaching GA status easier than adding sources a little later), also literally what sources do you even want because the coaching panel announcements are long gone, the window to get them was last year and there is no way to find most of them, Brisbane for example said they will "release an update in the coming weeks" MONTHS ago, at this point half the teams just havent even released that. You also told me to "trust you" MONTHS ago that it would be alright before the start of the season, that didnt happen.Flipstatic Energy (talk) 17:12, 6 March 2026 (UTC)

BTW theres dead links in the matches sections on the 2008 AFL Season and 2009 AFL season pages. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 04:03, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

@4TheWynne Sorry but what did I do wrong, Literally what needs to be "fixed" here because its all done correctly and i checked on previous season articles to make sure it was correct.

BTW If you still think im inexperienced I am actually very experienced with editing just mainly on different wikis. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 15:09, 8 March 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, if you have a look at the comparison here, you'll find there was quite a bit that was either incomplete or not formatted correctly; in these situations (normally I'd just update it at the time, but I've recently moved house and otherwise been working, so haven't had as much spare time), I usually find it easier to just roll back to a certain point and redo it myself rather than go through everything with a magnifying glass in case I miss something, so don't take it personally. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 02:00, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Ok, Ive noticed the differences were mostly just extra small spaces which I had somehow missed now. (I did remove alot in other areas) but sorry if I came off as angry or annoyed. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 03:09, 9 March 2026 (UTC)

Also, here is another controersial question

Why did the Coleman Medal Table become the leading goalkicker table. The AFL does not recognise the leading goalkicker including finals, just the coleman medal. Also what happens when sometime say Kyle Langford wins it but due to not being in finals he somehow falls out of the top 10.

I think AT A MINIMUM The coleman medal winner should stay at the top of the table, maybe in a seperate section if they fall off the top after finals (As seen in 2021), just because the table has mainly been for the award and not the most goals including finals. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 10:31, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, you need to stop doing THIS... I can read your messages just fine, thanks; at this point, you're just being obnoxious. I don't care what you think about "the AFL does not recognise" – that isn't the sole factor behind why we do what we do or format things a particular way; the main sources that we use (afl.com.au, AFL Tables and Australian Football) all list the leading goalkickers for the full season with no way of cutting off at the end of the home-and-away season, so we list the leading goalkickers for the full season inclusive of finals (more often than not, the Coleman Medallist/AFLW equivalent will be at the top of the table after finals anyway). You need to think more about why these tables are formatted in certain ways and stop trying to get most of them changed for no good reason. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 11:48, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Sorry I bold things without thinking sometimes. Also sorry I made the mistake of thinking the whole table was solely for the award since its normally under the awards section on most pages. (Should we make it its own section on each page? since it is not very consistent) Also btw, you do not need to link to my name since im always online and I will see it anyway, just to save your the trouble. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 12:01, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, as I said, the sources don't just list the home-and-away season goals... the Coleman Medallist/AFLW equivalent is listed under major awards and then their goals by match are displayed in the table just below, so no, there wouldn't be a need for a separate section (especially if the top ten at the end of the home-and-away season and after finals wouldn't be drastically different). And yes, I know that the goalkicking tables over the years haven't all been formatted the same way, but as you also know, that's something that I'm looking to fix when I have more time. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:14, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

I can try format them like I have done before (2022 and 2020) but how far back are we talking about here, 2020? 2010? 2000?

Also by a seperate section I mean like how in some articles the table is under the awards sections like "==Awards==" "===Leading Goalkicker" whereas in other articles its just "==Leading Goalkicker==" - Should those be changed so they are all under the awards section? Flipstatic Energy (talk) 12:38, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Also should the awards sections on pages such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_AFL_season#Awards also be trimmed down to be consistent with what we see in the 2019-2025 pages? (As well as maybe putting the Colenan winners name in bold on the table as well as their Round 23/24 tally?) Flipstatic Energy (talk) 17:06, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

From the section as it currently sits, the McClelland Trophy, wooden spoon, 22under22, Jim Stynes and AFLCA assistant coach, lifetime achievement and media awards should all be removed; and no, don't bold the Coleman/AFLW-equivalent winner. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:28, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Screens have different widths, which can cause names to wrap onto two lines. IMO balanced columns look much better than first and last columns maybe matching on some screens with a big hole in the middle. Probably should get rid of all the development coaches from the list. The-Pope (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Regarding my change in the Metallica page -- then pretty please we should do it for all the bands and not just Metallica. Iron Maiden, DragonForce, Sepultura, just to name a few, have the longest serving member in the list frist, and then alphabetical ON THE MEMBERS section. There has to be a standard that should apply all over Wikipedia and not just have it randomly different like that. TerminatorZXY (talk) 05:36, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

TerminatorZXY, I don't disagree that there should be a standard (though DragonForce isn't done the other way in the members section, it's the same as Metallica), but the reason for listing by instrument is to match timelines, which applies to most band articles – given the guideline for chronological order only applies to the infobox and there isn't one for the members section, we've tried to enforce the instrument order in as many band articles as possible. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 07:22, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

I agree, guess I'll start correcting other pages as I go. TerminatorZXY (talk) 07:24, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Would you help me out in the Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Sepultura etc and other band pages? People will keep reverting it no matter what I do. TerminatorZXY (talk) 11:06, 4 April 2026 (UTC)

Hi 4Wynne!

Figured I'd just shoot you a message since you seem to more or less be handling player template formatting as of late. I was having a look at some AFL materials whilst rolling out the referencing change to the templates, and noted that what used to be termed the Long-Term Injury list is what became the Inactive List from 2024 onwards in AFL materials.

2023 AFL Rules on Long Term Injury Lists

2024 AFL Rules on Inactive Lists

Obviously, the template's legend outlines two separate approaches for Long Term Injuries and the Inactive List - but these are fundamentally the same list, just with an altered name and rules from 2024 onwards. It's also worth noting the AFL does still recognise LTIs, as seen in their 2025 regulations, but their definition for what constitutes one is no longer public, from what I could see.

To that end - I was wondering whether it'd be worth either merging the two in the template's legend (given they refer to the same list under a different name), or changing the approach to listing LTIs on these template based on the AFL's prior definition from 2023 (that being 6-week and longer injuries). Curious as to your thoughts given you're more involved with the templates than I am.

Thanks, Empole1 (talk) 11:16, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Empole1, the referencing change should have been discussed as well (I still don't agree/see why it's necessary), but appreciate that you're at least making the correct approach here. The symbol is already only used for proper long-term injuries anyway (e.g. several months, so could probably even be applied more than it currently is), but players can be placed on the inactive list for reasons other than injury, so no, I don't think that the two need to be merged. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 13:25, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

4TheWynne, appreciate the quick response! If you think it's a good idea, I'll do a rollout of 6+ week injuries across that would meet the LTI qualifier as per that 2023 definition from the AFL. It might be worth adding the AFL's Injury List as an additional reference across the templates, since that information's not on the club websites as currently referenced.

As for the referencing, I probably should've mentioned more explicitly - but it actually falls foul of WP:CS:EMBED. I imagine it could probably slide if the templates only appeared on the list of squads, but with them appearing on the main club pages I figured it should be rectified to keep them all in the best possible shape. Apologies for not initially making that clearer in the edit summaries! Empole1 (talk) 14:05, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Last week against Collingwood, Fremantle's score of 45 was their lowest winning score in their history. However it was not reported anywhere (I myself found it at first from a freo fan on Twitter). Even on AFL Tables, our lowest ever scores dont even reach 45 so I can not use this, so I am unsure of where to find the actual source.

Also back to an earlier question, could you please answer the question I asked at the end of here about trimming down the lengthy awards sections on some pages which are not put on the pages anymore, (or possibly expanding the awards sections since when it was last done)? Flipstatic Energy (talk) 03:55, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, it's pretty easy to find here on AFL Tables; and just answered your earlier questions above. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:30, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

Thank you. Since I wasnt able to find it its a nice page of stats to read through as well. Flipstatic Energy (talk) 01:26, 18 April 2026 (UTC)

@4TheWynne Sorry for the ping but I have a new question.

At the game tonight, the ground announcer announced that tonights attendance of 54,140 is Fremantle's highest crowd for a thursday night game. If I am able to find a source for this, is it notable and relevant enough to go as a game note or not because I am confused by it. I know highest crowds are usually notable but this is different as it is highest crowd on a specific day.

Also by the way, Good luck next week. I know Fremantle are playing your team Essendon next week on sunday and that game will be for Fremantle to equal their record winning streak so good luck for the game.

Kind Regards, Flip Flipstatic Energy (talk) 14:21, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, you don't need to ping me on my user talk page – you already get a notification when someone posts on your user talk page. No, I wouldn't say that highest crowds on specific days (even the highest ever, let alone for one club) are notable, but it was the biggest home-and-away crowd between the two clubs, which I just added to the article; thanks... your team shouldn't have any issues winning that one. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:04, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Just a question on retirements, I was editing it in Tom Campbell's retirement and I noticed that some of the retirements before the season (Steven May and James Harmes) have their careers shown as XXXX - 2025 not 2026. So I have a question on the career length parts of player pages because I believe it also goes with the afl draft pages.

Does the career technically only extend into the year if they have been on the list after the season started? For example since May retired before the season started and the Dees recruited Paddy Cross would that be why his career says 2011-2025 and not 2011-2026? Same goes for the Hawthorn AFLW player who just retired, is her career XXXX - 2025 or XXXX - 2026? Or is it related to the "AFL Year" (Nov 1st - Oct 31st)

Also side question, I can not find this anywhere properly on google, what is the difference between "Cite Web" and "Cite News"? Flipstatic Energy (talk) 14:17, 15 May 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, yes, both of those players' spans are OK to end at 2025 – I think as long as it doesn't cross into the following season, that should be OK. Use 'cite news' for any news articles, etc., while 'cite web' would be better for databases like AFL Tables. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 04:34, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

Ok thanks, I assumed it would be like that. Also I have a question about notability, would the fact that Fremantle finish this round on top of the ladder for the first time since 2015, as well as it being the fifth longest wait in terms of seasons for a minor premier to return to the top as seen here in this Swamp stat be notable (Of course with a real source) for either

• The 2026 Fremantle Football Club Season page? or
• The footnotes under Round 11 on the 2026 AFL season page?

Flipstatic Energy (talk) 03:43, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

Flipstatic Energy, I do like that stat, but probably for the club season page at best. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 09:59, 24 May 2026 (UTC)

I assume Freo's winning streak being the longest by a WA based team also fits under the same category right? Probably only notable enough for the Round 15 gamenotes if it was a Victoria based team since theres 10 of them, or Melbourne based team since theres 9 of them (not including Geelong) right? Flipstatic Energy (talk) 07:48, 19 June 2026 (UTC)

Quick facts Four years! ...

Precious

Four years!

Close

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:44, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Mate, don't accuse me of making disruptive edits just because you disagree with them. Your welcome to take it the talk page or even ARF project page but adding the fixture and moving this "overview" section to the background section hardly constitutes vandalism. Perhaps WP:AGF before threatening others. Global-Cityzen (talk) 03:13, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

Global-Cityzen, I already asked you not to move the section because it's following an existing structure at a GA and you decided to ignore me and move it again (how am I then supposed to AGF?), which is disruptive – I never said 'vandalism' and it wasn't a threat. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 04:28, 21 May 2026 (UTC)

You changed a template that is in current use and needed at the 2026 French Open, and that left the article with no legend at all. The two templates are working well and editors understand their separate uses, so why mess with them? Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:37, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Fyunck(click), so rather than recognise that I simply forgot to add the parameter to the French Open articles at the time (which I've now done), you just decided to undo it all? We don't need two templates – I can understand why you created the second template, because 'eliminated' was permanent, but at the time I didn't realise that it was possible to make them all parameters, and now that I have, you can just change parameters rather than change templates; we had a similar thing happen in the Australian rules football space a few years ago, where instead of creating different versions of a legend template, they were deleted in favour of a single template with multiple parameters. Also, 2025 Miami Open – Men's singles and 2026 Hobart International only use the runner-up parameter, so there was even less reason to change from the original template where only the necessary parameter was used. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 02:34, 28 May 2026 (UTC)