Talk:2015 Thalys train attack

Hello. Just passing through to say that this article would need a major update as, after remaining silent for more than a year, El Khazzani finally confessed in December 2016 and gave much detail about his motives and plans. I have not looked for sources in English, but here is one in French: . Thanks and regards, Biwom (talk) 03:14, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

Indeed the terrorist admitted he was a terrorist and that what he did was a terror attack. Yet one didn't have to wait for his confession. It was obvious. He had an AKM assault rifle. In addition to the rifle, for which he had nine magazines and a total of 270 rounds of ammunition, he was carrying a concealed Luger pistol, a utility knife, and a bottle of petrol. Now what robber will carry such amount of ammunition, as well as a bottle of petrol? He was shirtless. How was he planning to run away unnoticed with his loot?

Therefor, writing in the introduction that "French police believe the incident to be an Islamist terrorist attack, although the attorney for the accused said that robbery was his only intent.", can not be more far from the truth and the common sense. "Believe"? "Yet his attorney... said... robbery"? Are you kidding me, excuse me for the French? If his attorney would claim that he was a peace activist; would you also write it and put the fact that it was an Islamist terrorist attack under the vague "believe" definition?

There can not be more absurd twist of facts and reason. But let's be frank, everyone knows why is that. It became a habit to masquerade islamist terrorist attacks whenever it seems possible, as well as when it is absolutely ridiculous, as in this case.

Anyway, it is not important what is the reason for this funny presentation of clear factual definition of a terror attack as if it is doubtful and unclear. The fact of the matter is that even according to his confession, in which he added that he is sorry he didn't manage to kill anyone.

I suggest the following change for the introduction:

On 21 August 2015, a man opened fire on a Thalys train on its way from Amsterdam to Paris[7][8] before his assault rifle jammed,[9] and he was subdued by passengers before he could kill anyone. Four people were injured, including the assailant.[10] French, American, and British passengers confronted the attacker; they received France's highest decoration, the Legion of Honour, and some received other honours, as well. The Islamist terrorist attack was denied by his attorney for the accused said that robbery was his only intent[11][12], yet at a later date he confessed it was indeed a terrorist attack influenced by Isis. (אריסטו המקורי (talk) 13:27, 2 March 2019 (UTC))

Yes this article is out of date, I've made changes though the Le Monde story linked above is truncated behind a paywall and can't get all the details, but enough. Is the terrorist still waiting for trial or any new developments since 2016 after he confessed? -- GreenC 14:18, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, a lot needs to be updated, and especially the introduction, as I was suggesting above.

The Le Monde source tells a lot in the opened section, yet you also have the source of Le Figaro, where the terrorist admits he got orders to commit the terrorist attack from Abdelhamid Abaaoud , a well known terrorist (this fact is also mentioned in Le Monde). Here is the Le Figaro source: , and here is Le Figaro page that has all the references to this terrorist attack as well as the trial: .

Among other things, the morrocan terrorist said: «Très honnêtement, j'ai regretté de ne pas avoir tué, après avoir vu tout ce qui se passe en Syrie». (translation: "Honestly, I regret for not killing, after seeing all that was going on in Syria.")

No need to 'believe' it was terrorist attack, not with 270 bullets and an assault rifle. We really didn't need to wait for his confession. We only need to be free from ideology while writing in Wikipedia.

(אריסטו המקורי (talk) 09:40, 7 March 2019 (UTC))

אריסטו המקורי, re: "We really didn't need to wait for his confession. We only need to be free from ideology while writing in Wikipedia." No we just need a WP:RS from authorities that have actually investigated the matter to charge him with a terrorist crime (which they did). We certainly DON'T need editors counting the bullets he carried in order to reach their own conclusions! No WP:OR. Pincrete (talk) 15:35, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

אריסטו המקורי, thanks for bringing this up. This article was mostly written in the few weeks and months after the event by English speakers who chase after exciting current events. Very often as time goes by, these articles languish for lack of attention and go stale. It is not anyone's fault or ideology etc.. just simple neglect over time. At the time it was written, it accurately reflected the best sources available. -- GreenC 16:19, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

From my understanding of French, Figaro does not say that he admitted to receiving orders from AA, it says that a radio had claimed this to be true. "Les interrogatoires se poursuivent ensuite tout au long de l'année 2017. Le contenu de l'un d'eux, celui du 23 novembre 2017, vient d'être révélé par France Inter. Selon la radio, Ayoub El Khazzani confirme que c'est Abdelhamid Abaaoud qui lui a donné l'ordre d'attaquer le train. «Il m'a dit que la cible était le Thalys, où je devais attaquer des Américains», confie au juge d'instruction le jeune homme, qui précise qu'il a refusé la ceinture d'explosifs proposée par Abaaoud, arguant qu'il était «contre le fait de massacrer des gens». Pincrete (talk) 17:38, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

The frwiki does suggest a connection with Abdelhamid Abaaoud. Translate: "The December 14, 2016 Ayoub El Khazzani, interviewed by a Paris judge, traces his links with Abaaoud. He confirms that both of them knew each other well" and "Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the coordinator of the Paris attacks, was the prime contractor of El Khazzani. An attack plan would have been predefined; the attack on the train was the first scheduled before the attacks in Paris, which took place a few months later, in November 2015" -- GreenC 17:50, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

donneur d'ordres is "prime contractor", this better translates as the principal or originator of the plan. -- GreenC 17:53, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Attributing confession

IMO, the confessions should not be used unattributed. The 'confessions' contain some extraordinary claims. My French ain't great but the French sources all seem to be attributing the content of these confessions to some other news org, or, like Le Monde, give no indication of where the contents of the confession came (is it normal to supply such info to the press in France .. it would not be in most countries since the content of interrogations is potentially evidence?).

CNN here repeats essentially the same story, attributing parts to "a source close to the investigation" and other parts to Le Monde and Fr press. CNN are sceptical about some details of the confession: "A week before the train attack, Abaaoud told el-Khazzani the operation was imminent and he would prepare everything for him. And then a few days later, Abaaoud told him the target was a Thalys train and his task was to attack Americans on board, el-Khazzani claimed. El-Khazzani also made the seemingly far-fetched claim that Abaaoud had told him there would be three to five American soldiers in the first-class carriage on the train. There would have been little way for Abaaoud to have had such information ahead of time."

A NYTimes article of Feb 2018 explicitly says that El-Khazzani had remained silent and uncooperative, while most recent Eng sources (inc BBC) do not appear to mention any confession. This should not be in WP:VOICE IMO. Pincrete (talk) 13:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi FYI: , ,,, Many sources English and French say he confessed, and details of the confession are supported by evidence in the CTC Sentinel study, which came out before he confessed. The CNN "far-fethced" statement is an opinion by a reporter; personally I find it credible, the terrorists could have discovered American travel plans online - I could easily find travel plans for Americans in Europe (doesn't matter who, any American). Absence of reportage in the NYT is not evidence other than they don't have the best coverage, for example how can the NYT can say he remained silent, contrary to so many other sources and without mentioning his supposed confessions so widely reported elsewhere? Obviously we have to attribute statements to "a source close to the investigation", and the confession were given to French judges. -- GreenC 16:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

The CNN author: "Paul Cruickshank is editor in chief of CTC Sentinel, the flagship independent terrorism studies journal of the Combating Terrorism Center at the US Military Academy at West Point and is on the advisory committee of the Center for the Analysis of Terrorism in Paris." The 'confession' was (as I understand it) given to examining magistrates (the Fr system - not to courts as the article currently claims - which implies open to press/public). There is little indication of how the contents of these 'depositions' were passed on to media (is this normal in Fr? Certainly would not be in UK). If I wanted to attack Americans in Fr, tracing the travel/holiday plans of 3 ordinary individuals would be a pretty dumb way to do so - every tourist attraction would hold more US citizens, and this would be only attack in Fr where the target was not the Fr state itself. I don't have time to answer all your points now, but I still believe we should be more sceptical about putting all this in WPVOICE. I'm not of course thinking that perp's initial "I found the guns" story is credible merely that a court is the only place where truth or otherwise can be established by public examination and testing of all the evidence. Pincrete (talk) 19:30, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

EEng, re this edit, there was/has been considerable dispute about this actor's role in the attack (RfC at head of page - 'Actions of train crew'). I'm in the "a mildly famous French actor cut his hand while panicing, so what?" camp, but there was considerable coverage at the time of his accusations that the train crew 'ran away' - and the RfC concluded that coverage of his 'role' should be greater than some of us had proposed. Just letting you know, I think your edit is good and leaves enough. Pincrete (talk) 11:11, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Too bad it wasn't Gerard Depardieu, because if he'd just jumped on the bad guy, then he and his weapons would have been instantly compressed to a superdense elemental pulp, much like something drawn into a neutron star. EEng 15:35, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Has El Khazzani been tried yet? 76.189.141.37 (talk) 20:07, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

The investigation is still going on. I am sure there will be considerable coverage when the trial opens and this article will be updated. Mezigue (talk) 20:42, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't understand the phrase "received life and lifetime deportation from France". If he gets a life sentence, presumably that means life in a French prison. If he's been deported, where to? Is he in prison there? I can't find anything on the web about it. PhilUK (talk) 21:36, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

The repreated phrase "shirtless Moroccan" in the Attack section reads as un-encyclopedic at best, and as story or inappropriate fetishization at worst.

The national identity of the attackes is clear from the first introduction at the beginning. Further referring to him as the "shirtless Moroccan" seems strange to me. Perhaps this is meant to emphasize the words and formulations of eyewitnesses?

I flagged it as inline "undue weight" and flagged the section using the Story template (but I am new to this, so this may not be the most appropriate way to flag it). 193.52.24.46 (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

In hindsight, "shirtless Moroccan" seems to repeat only once. However, I believe identifying the attacker as "Moroccan" infringes on neutrality anyway. 193.52.24.46 (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2025 (UTC)

It is in the context of two different viewers who saw the person at different times, showing the unusualness of what each saw. I think it is fine. Pmsyyz (talk) 01:21, 14 July 2025 (UTC)

It's been 10 years since the train attack. What can I say more? ShadowVoid Fourteen (talk) 19:56, 21 August 2025 (UTC)