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Talk:Carl Grillmair

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More information Article milestones, Date ...
Good articleCarl Grillmair has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 14, 2026Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 6, 2026.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Carl Grillmair, a Canadian astrophysicist at Caltech, discovered water on multiple exoplanets?
Close

DYK?

@RabidTuberculosis, great work on this. Were you planning to nominate for WP:DYK? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 20:44, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Thank you, @Coffeeandcrumbs! It meets the criteria, so I've put in a nomination. Appreciate you flagging this as an option! RabidTuberculosis (talk) 21:08, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Suggest adding an alternative hook about discovering water around several exoplanets? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 21:34, 25 March 2026 (UTC)
Great suggestion - done RabidTuberculosis (talk) 22:06, 25 March 2026 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. Track your hook after promotion. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:16, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

    • Reviewed:
Created by RabidTuberculosis (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

RabidTuberculosis (talk) 21:16, 25 March 2026 (UTC). Hello. I'll be reviewing your DYK nomination. I'll come back to you in a few hours. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 02:52, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

  • @RabidTuberculosis: I have finished reviewing the article. The article is well-cited. Well done! However, I have one minor issue to point out: the acronym "SAGES" is mentioned in the article without introduction. What does SAGES stand for?
More information General: Article is new enough and long enough ...
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Close

Policy compliance:

More information Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation ...
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Close
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 03:37, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

  • Not technically a BLP issue, but how do you feel about removing mention of his being shot in February? Focus on the achievements, not the killing. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:20, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
    • @Crisco 1492: Totally agree that his life's work and achievements should be of central focus, however the bulk of media interest (and subsequent notability) is based on his killing, so omitting could be a disservice to readers. — RabidTuberculosis (talk) 06:27, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
      • @RabidTuberculosis: I agree with Crisco 1492 that the hook, per WP:DYKBLP, focuses unduly on the sad circumstances of his death and that this will likely be an obstacle to its promotion. Are you OK with ALT0a: ... that Carl Grillmair discovered water on multiple exoplanets? This is simpler, hookier and more positive. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:04, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
        • @Dclemens1971: Appreciate your feedback! On the one hand, the killing might be of central consequence, especially since the White House probe on missing/murdered scientists is a strong driver of interest in Grillmair and others, like Nuno Loureiro, Neil McCasland, and Monica Jacinto, who were accomplished in their own right. On the other hand, focusing on the killing could amplify undue attention on the missing scientists conspiracy theory. Would you recommend rewriting the DYK to center the gov investigation, or omit in favor of scientific achievement? Open to either, and appreciate suggestions as this is my first DYK submission.  — RabidTuberculosis (talk) 18:08, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
          • @RabidTuberculosis: I can tell you there are many participants at DYK who prefer not to focus on the circumstances of recent deaths. Even if you found a promoter willing to move it into prep and a queuer willing to move it into a queue, it might still come up at WP:ERRORS and be changed or pulled there. My strong recommendation is to focus on his scientific achievements. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:20, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
            • @Dclemens1971: I've rewritten the hook to focus on achievements. Thank you for helping me better match the tone and substance of DYK, I will apply this to future submissions.  — RabidTuberculosis (talk) 18:32, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
              • Since the shorter hook ALT0 includes no new facts from the version that Nrco0e approved, no new tick is needed and a promoter can move forward with ALT0 (or ALT0a), which I still think is punchier - readers don't need to be told he worked at Caltech, for example. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:43, 27 April 2026 (UTC)
                • Revised to center the exoplanetary water discovery and minimize descriptors to basics (nationality, occupation) RabidTuberculosis (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

The two suspects

The addition of the fourth paragraph to the "Killing" section here has me baffled (aside from the incorrect edit summary). Is it talking about Snyder, the suspect mentioned in paragraph two, or is this a different suspect? This should be clarified, and if it's the same person, the paragraphs should be combined and shortened. Paragraph two says the Grillmairs called police, paragraph four says they did not call police but then mentions "police contact" without saying what that is. GA-RT-22 (talk) 07:23, 6 May 2026 (UTC)

GA review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


This review is transcluded from Talk:Carl Grillmair/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: RabidTuberculosis (talk · contribs) 00:11, 7 May 2026 (UTC)

Reviewer: Nrco0e (talk · contribs) 08:49, 30 June 2026 (UTC)


Hello there! I'll be reviewing this article over this week. This is my first time doing a good article review, so please be patient. Once I finish the review, I'll invite an experienced reviewer to check and give a second opinion. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 08:49, 30 June 2026 (UTC)

Hi @Nrco0e, I'll look over this review. Here are my comments:
  • Your full TSI check is amazing and extremely useful. That must have taken you ages, but it really improves the article and I hope it will help @RabidTuberculosis to make less TSI mistakes when writing future articles.
  • Generally your review is well structured and covers everything. I don't see any major issues you missed in the article, so overall this review is quite good.
  • Since you mentioned grammar in your mentorship request, I went through and fixed all the clear grammar errors I saw which would be relevant to GA. You can see the fixes in this edit. There are still plenty of ways to improve the flow, clarity and conciseness of the text, but they go beyond the GA criteria.
  • I have concerns about the reliability of [4] (Canadian Mountain Holidays) and [22] and [27] (pasadenanow.com). Canadian Mountain Holidays seems to be a simple self-published business website, and pasadenanow.com doesn't have any sort of editorial board, and the Pasadena Now article describes that they outsource their content writing to overseas workers probably with little journalism training. Could the citations to these two sources be replaced with more reliable ones?
  • introducing technical rock climbing to Canada strays a tiny bit too far from the source in my opinion. I think rather than saying he introduced it, it should stay closer to the source by saying it was the first technical climb.
  • Could charge transfer efficiency problems be worded a bit less technically or linked per WP:TECHNICAL?
  • While not an issue for GA, this article would massively benefit from breaking away from its WP:PROSELINE style. By linking and flowing sentences better.
I ran GPT-5 on the article to find the following minor factual issues (some others I fixed myself):
  • in 1986 on a Petrie fellowship: His CV dates his Petrie fellowship to 1987.
  • that would later be implemented on the Fast Infrared Exoplanet Spectroscopy Survey Explorer (FINESSE): It seems FINESSE was later cancelled, so his work was not later implemented.
  • I don't know enough about the subject to know, but is Category:Plasma physicists accurate?
I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further questions. I would be happy to see this pass once all the remaining issues in this review have been fixed. IAWW (talk) 12:27, 10 July 2026 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I haven't thoroughly reviewed the backgrounds of the sources on my part, so thanks for catching that. I'll keep this in mind. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 19:45, 10 July 2026 (UTC)
No worries. Hopefully @RabidTuberculosis will respond soon :) IAWW (talk) 18:50, 11 July 2026 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it well written?
    A. The prose is clear, concise and understandable to an appropriately broad audience, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
    B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
  2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
    A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:
    B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
    C. It contains no original research:
    D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
    Earwig says copyright violation is unlikely; highest similarity score is 21.9%, but that comes from listing full names of awards and institutions.
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
    B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
  4. Is it neutral?
    It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
  5. Is it stable?
    It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
  6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
    A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
    B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:



Prose feedback

he was a co-investigator on the NUKER collaboration

  • What does "NUKER" stand for? If you can find a full spelling of the acronym with a source, please do so.

He discovered water around multiple exoplanets.

  • The water is inside the exoplanets, so it should be "in" multiple exoplanets. Also, what kinds of exoplanets? Are they all hot Jupiters? What are their names? See my detailed comments in the sourcing spot-checks section below.

Sourcing spot-checks

This table lists all 40 passages in the article (containing 52 inline citations from 31 unique sources). Generated with the Veracity user script. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 02:32, 6 July 2026 (UTC)

More information Reference #, Letter ...
Reference #LetterSourceArchiveStatusNotes
Grillmair was born in Calgary in 1959 to Leo and Elfi Grillmair.
1acaltech.edu Good
He had two younger siblings, including Walter Grillmair, who died in 1981. He was interested in astronomy since childhood.
2aipac.caltech.edu Good
His father, Leo Grillmair, was a rock climber who ascended the first route on Mount Yamnuska in 1952, introducing technical rock climbing to Canada.
3alpineclubofcanada.ca Good
4stories.cmhheli.com Good
Grillmair earned a Bachelor of Science with honours in astrophysics from the University of Calgary in 1983, where he attended on a M. Cecil Brownlee scholarship.
5aweb.ipac.caltech.edu GoodSource says "Cecil M. Brownlee Bursary", but Googling that tells me the preferred spelling is "M. Cecil Brownlee Bursary", which the article uses. I'll allow that.
He was awarded the province of Alberta Award and BP Canada Award, and graduated with a Top Student in Physics prize.
5bweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
He earned a Master of Science in astronomy from the University of Victoria in 1986 on a Petrie fellowship.
1bcaltech.edu GoodThe Caltech source does not say this. Carl's CV does have the relevant information, however. Could you replace that?
Grillmair briefly attended the University of Toronto in 1987 as an open doctoral fellow before being awarded the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada Ph.D. Scholarship and moving to the Australian National University in 1988.
6arsaa.anu.edu.au GoodThe citation only mentions the title and year of Grillmair's PhD thesis, and has nothing to do with this sentence. Could you replace the citation?
There, he studied the dynamics of globular clusters of stars and earned a doctorate in 1993.
6brsaa.anu.edu.au Good
7cambridge.org Good
As a graduate student, Grillmair worked as a data analyst at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore, Maryland, and on the International Ultraviolet Explorer at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. In 1992, he began working on the Wide Field and Planetary Camera, analyzing instrument data from the Hubble Space Telescope.
8google.com GoodThe source only mentions the title of a telescope proposal by Grillmair. Unless I missed something in the book, this does not verify this sentence.
He also tested and calibrated its successor, the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 and analyzed charge transfer efficiency problems from data on orbit until 1997.
5cweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
9google.com GoodI can't access the full text in the book, so I don't know if the book contains the relevant info or not. From the limited preview I see a mention of Grillmair's HST work on globular clusters, but that doesn't seem relevant to the sentence's topic about instrumentation. I think this citation can be removed, since the CV fully cites this sentence.
In 1994, Grillmair joined the Study of the Astrophysics of Globular Clusters in Extragalactic Systems (SAGES) collaboration, using Hubble images and spectroscopy from the W. M. Keck Observatory to study extragalactic globular cluster systems. He also studied stellar populations in the Local Group. Along with Douglas Richstone and Sandra Faber, he was a co-investigator on the NUKER collaboration, which used Hubble data to study local galactic cores, until 2001.
5dweb.ipac.caltech.edu GoodGood, but it doesn't mention the full acronym of SAGES. You should add another citation to this sentence; I found this 1997 paper that mentions Grillmair's work for SAGES with the full acronym spelled out. I'm sure this works well as a 2nd citation.
And one more thing, what does "NUKER" stand for? If you can find a full spelling of the acronym with a source, please do so.
Grillmair worked with John Trauger in 1998 to investigate exoplanet imaging techniques for use on future telescopes, including the James Webb Space Telescope. From 2000 to 2010, he also worked with Stephanie A. Majewski as co-investigator on the Space Interferometry Mission, selecting a target list for the telescope, which was to study the structure and evolution of the galactic disc and halo.
10google.com GoodI see bits of stuff related to a HST globular cluster study by Grillmair, but nothing related to these sentences.
11google.com GoodNothing related to these sentences.
(Grillmair's CV mentions his work with Trauger and Majewski. Please use that as a citation. I highly recommend finding other sources that directly mention them and the relevant work as well.)
Grillmair collaborated with Kathryn Johnston on the Origins Billion Star Survey, intended to measure the position and motion of stars in the Milky Way, between 2004 and 2007.
5eweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
12google.com GoodCompletely irrelevant, has nothing to do with the sentence.
Since 2005, Grillmair was a co-investigator on the Virtual Planetary Laboratory with Victoria Meadows. He led the exoplanet search team at the California Transit Authority from 2005 to 2007 and was involved with the Vera C. Rubin Observatory project in 2008. He was a principal investigator for the Palomar Transient Factory Galactic Dynamics project from 2007 to 2011.
13google.com GoodThis is a 2009 paper analyzing HST observations of stars. This has nothing to do with the sentences here.
He was a member of the NASA Astrobiology Institute from 2009 to 2012.
14astrobiology.nasa.gov Good
He joined Caltech's Spitzer Science Center in 1997.
1ccaltech.edu Good
15ipac.caltech.edu Good
He worked on the Spitzer Space Telescope, including on the Infrared Array Camera (IRAC) and briefly as a deputy lead on the Infrared Spectrograph (IRS) instrument.
1dcaltech.edu Good
From 2010 to 2013, he was a scientist on NASA's Explorers Program, where he helped propose and develop instruments for exoplanet spectroscopy that would later be implemented on the Fast Infrared Exoplanet Spectroscopy Survey Explorer (FINESSE).
16google.com GoodThe book only mentions his 2007 work on an exoplanet, and has nothing to do with his 2010-2013 work. This citation should be replaced with Grillmair's CV.
Since 2010, he was a calibration scientist on NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE).
1ecaltech.edu GoodSource does mention WISE, but does not mention 2010. Instead of using this one, how about replace it with Grillmair's CV as a citation, which does mention the year he started working for WISE?
17google.com GoodThe book preview doesn't give any details about Grillmair's relation to WISE. Instead of using this one, how about replace it with Grillmair's CV as a citation, which does mention the year he started working for WISE?
He worked at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at Caltech before he died.
2bipac.caltech.edu Good
He discovered water around multiple exoplanets.
18nature.com GoodArticle is paywalled, but I can confirm it's referring to HD 189733 b, like all the other sources used for this sentence. However, I believe the paywalled Nature article is totally redundant if it isn't easily accessible and has the same content as all other sources.
19physicsworld.com GoodAnother HD 189733 article. The sentence says "multiple exoplanets", but all sources point to a single exoplanet, HD 189733 b.
What other exoplanets has Grillmair found water on? I strongly suggest mentioning the names of these exoplanets, and perhaps what type they are (e.g. Carl Grillmair discovered water in multiple hot Jupiter exoplanets, including HD 189733 b, Xxx, and Xxx.)
20google.com GoodThese sources are redundant since they are different pages of the same book, referring to the same Spitzer discovery of water on HD 189733 b. To avoid clutter, I suggest leaving only one of them.
21google.com Good
Grillmair was married to Louise Grillmair.
22apasadenanow.com Good
He was an avid pilot, flying gliders and sailplanes, and enjoyed repairing his home, where he kept a small observatory with multiple telescopes.
2cipac.caltech.edu Good
He also enjoyed classical and rock music, cycling and clean energy.
5fweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
On Monday, 16 February 2026, Grillmair was fatally shot on his front porch in Llano, an unincorporated community in Antelope Valley, California.
23latimes.com Good
Paramedics pronounced him dead at the scene.
24dailynews.com Good
The Los Angeles County Medical Examiner reported that he died from a single bullet wound to the torso.
25atheguardian.com Good
Officers from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department in Palmdale responded to a call about a carjacking in the area and arrested a suspect,
26cbsnews.com Good
identified as 29-year-old Freddy Snyder. On 18 February, he was charged with Grillmair's murder, and separately charged with carjacking and burglary.
25btheguardian.com GoodThis source does not mention the specific date of February. The PasadenaNow source alone is sufficient for citing this sentence, so this Guardian citation can be removed from this sentence.
27pasadenanow.com Good
Snyder lived two miles from Grillmair's residence and was reported as having a history of trespassing on Grillmair's property, who had reported him to police on 20 December 2025.
28acbc.ca GoodThe source does mention Snyder's living distance and history of trespassing, but does not mention December 20. (I see that PasadenaNow mentions Dec 20. Please cite that source for this sentence, together with the already existing one.)
Snyder was arrested on a weapons charge in that case and released three days later.
28bcbc.ca GoodNeither sources mention a weapons charge nor Snyder's release period. (I see that PasadenaNow mentions Dec 23 as Snyder's release date. Please replace both citations with this source for this sentence.)
29usatoday.com Good
Grillmair's killing was likened to that of Nuno Loureiro, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) who had been shot two months earlier.
25ctheguardian.com Good
In April 2026, in response to the missing scientists conspiracy theory, the White House opened an investigation into the killings and disappearances of scientists and government officials, including retired Air Force Major General Neil McCasland and Monica Reza, a materials engineer at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
30cnn.com Good
Grillmair's widow, Louise Grillmair, rejected the conspiracy theory and told the press that she believed her husband was targeted in a misguided revenge plot.
31abbc.com Good
In the months before the killing, a man had trespassed on their property claiming to be hunting coyote and causing disturbances at nearby homes. Although Grillmair had not called 911 to report the man, Louise believes the suspect blamed her husband for the police contact.
31bbbc.com Good
Snyder returned with a baseball bat two weeks before the shooting, and then allegedly returned on 16 February and killed Grillmair.
31cbbc.com Good
The Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors honored Grillmair on 3 March 2026.
22bpasadenanow.com Good
NASA Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal (2011)
1fcaltech.edu Good
Maclean's – Thirty-Nine Canadians Who Make the World a Better Place to Live In: Discoverers and Thinkers (2006)
5gweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
California Institute of Technology – Gemini Fellowship (1997)
5hweb.ipac.caltech.edu Good
Close

Final comments

The review is in progress. I'll ping you when I'm done. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 07:56, 7 July 2026 (UTC)

  • Hello RabidTuberculosis, I've finished the sourcing spot-check. I'm afraid that I've found a lot of citation issues, so please address those. To be specific, please check my comments and sources tagged without the green plus sign in the spot-check table. I'll read through the article one more time to check for any issues with prose, so stay tuned. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 08:27, 7 July 2026 (UTC)
    • Prose check done, I see no major issues with grammar. There's a few sentences that I'd like clarified though. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 03:11, 8 July 2026 (UTC)

@Nrco0e: @It is a wonderful world: Apologies for the delay, and thank you for your incredibly thorough and insightful review! I've implemented your suggestions by rewriting some of the prose, removing the sources that are not directly germane, and swapping some references around. I've also expanded the section on his death to better account for new information LA DA's office. Point by point:

  • Re-cited the M.Sc./Petrie Fellowship, University of Toronto/NSERC/ANU, STScI/WFPC, Trauger–Majewski–SIM, Origins Billion Star Survey, and VPL/CTA/Rubin/PTF sentences to his CV, which directly supports all of them; removed the book citations that didn't directly verify those lines.
  • Added a second citation (Forbes 1997) confirming the SAGES acronym.
  • Removed the Deep-Sky Companions: Hidden Treasures citation as suggested, since the CV fully covers that sentence.
  • FINESSE: reworded, you're right that it was never selected for flight, since NASA passed after ESA chose the similar ARIEL mission in 2018 (added a citation for that).
  • WISE: added the CV citation, which gives the 2010 start date the old citations were missing.
  • Water discovery: confirmed via the primary paper this is a single planet, HD 189733b (a hot Jupiter) so I reworded accordingly, and swapped the paywalled Nature news piece and a duplicate book citation for the Grillmair et al. 2008 Nature paper.
  • Replaced both flagged PasadenaNow citations: "married to Louise" and the Board of Supervisors sentence now cite an official press release from Supervisor Barger's office; the arraignment sentences now cite MyNewsLA.
  • Removed the Guardian citation from the "charged Feb. 18" sentence and the CBC citation from "weapons charge/released three days later," since neither supported those specific claims.
  • Swapped the Canadian Mountain Holidays source for a Gripped Magazine piece on the Yamnuska climb.

Prose:

  • "Introducing technical rock climbing to Canada" rewrote as "made the first technical rock climb," matching the sources.
  • Reworded "charge transfer efficiency problems" in plain language and linked charge-coupled device.
  • Linked "NUKER" to Nuker Team — it's an informal nickname the team used for itself, not a true acronym.
  • Corrected the Petrie Fellowship to 1987 per the CV (was misdated 1986).

Changes outside of GAR:

  • Removed Category:Plasma physicists since not super apt here
  • The criminal case has moved since this review opened, so I added the arraignment delays and 26 May not-guilty plea. Also corrected the wound location from "torso" to "neck" per the DA's press release, which corrected the earlier general report.
Happy to make any other changes! RabidTuberculosis (talk) 18:15, 13 July 2026 (UTC)
@RabidTuberculosis: That resolves all the issues, thank you so much! I see no other issues. I believe this article is ready to pass for GA promotion. Congratulations! Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 02:39, 14 July 2026 (UTC)
@Nrco0e: As an aside, hugely inspired by how detailed and thorough your own "good articles" on astronomy topics have been. Would love for you to weigh in on the GAR for Cold spot (astronomy) if you have the time! RabidTuberculosis (talk) 18:17, 13 July 2026 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm glad to see another knowledgeable person writing up good articles on obscure astronomy topics! I don't know if I have the time to review the Cold spot article this month, but I do think it needs a complete source spot-checking, rather than a partial one. Nrco0e (talk • contribs) 02:39, 14 July 2026 (UTC)

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