Talk:Dallas Buyers Club

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Good articleDallas Buyers Club has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 11, 2014Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on September 16, 2014.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the film Dallas Buyers Club is about Ron Woodroof (played by Matthew McConaughey), a real-life AIDS patient who smuggled unapproved pharmaceutical drugs into Texas?
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AZT

When this film first came out, there was a section about the misinformation about AZT promulgated in the film. Far from being "toxic" and harmful, AZT save countless lives in the early days when it was the only effective treatment. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/10/what-dallas-buyers-club-got-wrong-about-the-aids-crisis/ is just one of the many articles on the 'net addressing this. Since this misinformation is at least as important as whether or not the main character was bisexual or gay, I think it would rate at least as much mention. 72.64.227.187 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:20, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

I watched this movie recently; went straight to Wikipedia afterwards and was left confused. The link provided above is excellent (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/10/what-dallas-buyers-club-got-wrong-about-the-aids-crisis/) and should be mentioned somewhere in the article, probably in the lead. EvMsmile (talk) 07:29, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Title

There are problems with how the film is referred to across Wikipedia. Is it "Buyers Club"? "Buyers' Club" or "Buyer's Club." Obviously, the media also is having difficulty with the plural apostrophe concept, but there needs to be some consistency.

Also, much of the information is biased and also is taken directly from the IMDB summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.18.89 (talk) 17:41, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I would think the same thing, however the IMDB entry, as well as the promotional posters, and every other media source, don't use the possessive apostrophe. So that is the reason for the title as it is. Shadowjams (talk) 06:39, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Accuracy

Currently the text in the 'historical accuracy' section seems intended to suggest that Woodroof faced no risks due to the FDA's 'tacit acceptance' of buyers' clubs, but a more nuanced contemporary article reproduced here shows that he faced border arrests, confiscation, and unpredictable changes of federal policy at any time. Suggested for expansion, perhaps moved to a section titled 'background' or similar. --Dhartung | Talk 21:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I have restored the previous section on historical accuracy. Most groups had approval from the FDA and nearly all of them disbanded after the development of HAART. The FDA doesn't regulate border crossings or commerce between the US and Mexico.

CivisHibernius (talk) 13:42, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

That's misleading Civis... that the FDA isn't a law enforcement agency doesn't mean they don't set laws that can be enforced by other agencies. That said, Dhartung should incorporate the source into the article. Removing it altogether is inappropriate. Shadowjams (talk) 06:41, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
The only one whose being misleading is Dhartung. If you want to add something to the historical accuracy section, obtain a source or reference from that time period, which is reputable (not some National Health Federation crap for example).

CivisHibernius (talk) 13:18, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

The entry is biased (and unsupported) in its claim that HIV/AIDS was under researched in the mid 1980s. HIV/AIDS was novel, and widely misunderstood as a disease applicable to male homosexuals (hence Woodroof's own apparent confusion as to his diagnosis). Ddpeck (talk) 21:22, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Woodroof was, in reality, openly bisexual and assumed he had contracted the disease from sex with men. The part about him being homophobic and being infected from a prostitute is made up to give a story to the movie, which has huge problems with accuracy both in its personalities and its general approach (not surprising since it's written by an AIDS denialist/conspiracy theorist). Predestiprestidigitation (talk) 06:34, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Ron Woodroof Redirect

I don't think it's appropriate to have the article on the actual person Ron Woodroof redirect to an article on a movie with fictionalized details. I think, as long as there isn't an article written on Ron Woodroof, it should not redirect at all. Are there examples of other real people whose articles redirect to fictionalized accounts of their lives?  Preceding unsigned comment added by Davvolun (talkcontribs) 21:10, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

We should have an article on him as Loeba says.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:23, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I second that Gts-tg (talk) 20:55, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that having an article on Ron is important. Ron was a person, not a movie. 22:17, 4 April 2014 (UCT)

How to refer to Rayon?

Should the plot summary use male or female pronouns when referring to Rayon? I seem to remember the character being referred to as "he" in the film, which makes me think we should do the same. Agree? Disagree? We should attempt to come to a consensus over this and then put a hidden note in the plot summary, otherwise I can imagine it always being changed back and forth... --Loeba (talk) 21:02, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

"It"? Just kidding, I think he, his natural state, but we could always use he/she. Given that the Oscars are only what 6 weeks away?? I think we should try to get this up to a reasonable status. Quite sad really that films like this are neglected and the superhero blockbusters are always crammed full even by the time of release!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

The article describes Rayon as a trans woman. If this is accurate, Rayon should only & always be referred to as "she."[1]. If Rayon is not actually a trans woman, then the article should be changed to reflect that. mrs smartygirl | Talk 19:53, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
I, for one, don't get the joke. --Matt (talk) 05:08, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
If anyone actually watched the film, Rayon is NOT a transsexual woman. Rayon is a transvestite, i.e., cross-dresser. Let's not confuse the two. In the scene where Woodroof and Rayon are in the supermarket, Woodroof introduces Rayon to an acquaintance and orders the guy to "shake his hand" when referring to Rayon. At no point is Rayon ever called by a female pronoun. DavidRavenMoon (talk) 14:30, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
The fact that Woodroof calls Rayon "he" could be explained away by Woodroof's bigotry throughout the film, even after he befriended Ray. However, Ray's doctor and childhood friend who was not bigotted also used the masculine pronoun several times (eg. "He was my friend, too.") I agree with the analysis that Ray was a transvestite rather than a transsexual. The article should be corrected to reflect this. 147.251.210.124 (talk) 19:58, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
I might be late to the game, and I don't know if this is even possible, but the "It"? joke is something, as a transperson, that I find quite offensive. It bums me out to have to see that as I work my way through wikipedia. Is it possible to delete a comment or revise it? It's just something that, on a day to day basis, adds to the microaggressions that trans people experience. I understand that Dr. Blofeld's comment generally is a valid comment and is engaged with a question about pronouns, etc - that is not what I take issue with. I am not trying to attack or dismiss the overall content of this conversation, just the beginning "joke." The "just kidding" doesn't take away the fact that they felt it appropriate to make the joke in the first place. Transunicorn (talk) 23:15, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. The character is a man, is understood by all other characters to be a man, and never in the entire movie indicates that he identifies as anything other than a man. This is an encyclopedia, not a blog, so logic applies. 85.218.118.113 (talk) 22:51, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
My edit was reverted due a need for "consensus". However, judging by the timestamps, there does not seem to be an active conversation. In fact, there have been several previous comments suggesting the pronouns should be changed, citing the content of the the film. Since this is a fictional character, I think the film is really all we have to go by. Unless it is the position of Wikipedia that all male transvestites are actually women who mistakenly identify as men, it seems the default choice should be to use male pronouns, since all of the data that we have from the film point towards that conclusion. If people do feel that all male transvestites should be referred to as women on Wikipedia regardless of their identity as men, that seems like a conversation for somewhere else. I do agree with User:Mrs smartygirl, however I think this puts the articles characterization of Rayon as a "trans woman" in question. I don't remember him ever being referred to as a "trans woman" in the movie.85.218.118.113 (talk) 20:46, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
See , , , , and many other reliable sources. If reliable secondary sources refer to the character of Rayon as a trans woman, then this article does too. Pretty clear-cut. Rockypedia (talk) 21:39, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
No, what actually matters is the primary source. I could provide secondary sources which correctly refer to the character, but they are of no relevance. 85.218.118.113 (talk) 22:57, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
The opposite of what you just said is true, if you read this. The relevant sentence: "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources."
OK, then I refer to the first link that you shared: "That's how the role was written, with Rayon as a flamboyant, full-time crossdresser, but not a transgender woman". The article also mentions that the director always referred to Rayon as a "guy", and that Rayon is referred to throughout the entire script as a man. It also discusses Jared Leto's ideas about his character, but I don't think that these are particularly relevant for our purposes here. What matters is the actual movie, and here we have an authoritative secondary source explaining it. Sure, there are plenty of popular media sources that have been using the wrong pronouns for Rayon and imposing contemporary ideas about transgenderism onto a film that was set 30 years ago. This is a real cultural phenomenon, and if you want to add a section to the article about this, then go ahead. But let's get the content correct. 85.218.118.113 (talk) 22:28, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
You cited a paragraph that pretty much directly confirms Rayon should be referred to as a trans woman. The role was originally written as a cross-dressing man, but this article isn't about the first draft of the script. It's about the finished product - the film as it exists. Your characterization of the next sentence as "It also discusses Jared Leto's ideas about his character" is completely misleading - that sentence states flat-out "Leto later decided to play the character as a transgender woman." You're really reaching now, and it doesn't seem like any further conversation with you will be productive, so I would recommend that you elevate this issue to an admin if you want it changed. You certainly have not reached any consensus here that will allow the change you want. Sorry, and have a nice day. Rockypedia (talk) 23:14, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

wrong link/reference?


under "production", the reference [15] given in the following sentence makes no sense: "Principal photography began in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA in mid-2012, after considerable delay and concerns about the project from the producers and cast.[15]" --96.63.2.100 (talk) 19:58, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Ron Woodroof bisexual?

There seems to be some evidence, or at least speculation, that Ron Woodroof was not straight, and maybe more likely bisexual. See:

"Was the Hero of Dallas Buyers Club Actually Bisexual?", http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/01/17/was_dallas_buyers_club_s_ron_woodroof_gay_or_bisexual_friends_and_doctor.html

I feel this is something that is of "historical importance" if it is indeed fact, so I thought noting it here in the Talk section would be appropriate until there is more definite confirmation.

Quoting from that article: ' Those who knew Woodroof were surprised when they saw him portrayed this way on the screen. In November, Arnold Wayne Jones wrote an article for the Dallas Voice, which stated that Woodroof “was not a homophobe … according to those who knew him, but rather openly bisexual.” This week I contacted one of Jones’ sources, Dr. Steven Pounders, who was Woodroof’s primary care physician. “I never witnessed any homophobia in the time I knew him from 1988 through his death in 1992,” Dr. Pounders told me. “He fit right in the gay environment without problems.” Was Woodroof straight? “Brenda, his ex-wife, stated that he was bisexual,” says Dr. Pounders. (“Brenda and he were married, then divorced, but they remained close until his death,” he explained.) '

American use of "the hospital"

This article is about an American, in an American film, and used the British English "at hospital" and "in hospital". I felt it was more appropriate to use the American form for this clause, so I changed it.Networkprosource (talk) 23:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I wrote most of the plot summary and I am indeed a Brit - I didn't realise AmEng needed a definite article for "hospital"! Thanks. --Loeba (talk) 07:33, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm glad this was addressed. I love British English, but as an American, this is the one style usage that drives me batty. Viriditas (talk) 08:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

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