Talk:Feminization (sexual activity)

As it says in the first sentence, this is about a "practice in dominance and submission or kink subcultures". There is a lot of valuable material here, but in its current form, especially in the "As a theme" section, there are also many references to simply instances of forced feminization. For example, Ranma 1/2 where it is used for humor, in a children's cartoon, rather than intended for fetishists. I think these references don't belong here - for example Gene Hackman at the end of the Birdcage is forced to dress like a woman, but even if fetishists enjoy this scene, it is not directly related to either the consensual practice of the kink, or the culture around it. Similarly we don't include a list of movies with great foot scenes in the Foot fetishism article. The only way a mention of Ranma 1/2 etc would be appropriate would be if it was in fact a central pillar of feminization fetishist culture (and this supported with good citations). I think this article should limit its scope to the real-life practice and culture of the kink, which is admirably well covered here, and the porn intentionally created for the fetish (where notable for some reason). BrightVamp (talk) 01:40, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

As discussed, I've made an edit to limit this article to apply to the sexual activity, as the title and lead indicate. Therefore I have removed material about things that are to do with feminization in general. (I also removed a couple of points that do refer to the sexual practice for not being notable or having a WP:RS, e.g. Otapol) Some of these points, where notable, could find a home in an article with a name like "Forced feminization in fiction", akin to Time travel in fiction - though Cross-dressing in film and television exists and contains a number of entries about forced cross-dressing, eg Oira Sukeban. Without this change the list could be endless and would greatly imbalance the article, besides being irrelevant. Removing them refocuses the article on the kinky practice, which I believe makes it stronger. BrightVamp (talk) 19:42, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

So crossressing as female and fantasizing about being used is not gay one bit? not even bisexual? totally hetero...? Aww good to know that traps are not gay afterall... xD I think this article needs a bit of verifying... Zazae (talk) 17:21, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Sissy Maid.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

This article is confusing feminization with sissification. Both are completely different. Feminization can be done to any gender but sissification is not. Very poor and biased article. It needs to be corrected. Polarbear678 (talk) 09:02, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Polarbear678: Thanks, but please note that the purpose of this page is for editors to discuss how to improve the article. Generally speaking, purely critical comment with no proposals on how to better the situation are undesirable, and may even be removed from the page. Since you are new here, you get a bit more slack than more experienced editors (we were all there before, so don’t worry), but you should follow up with your concrete proposals about how to improve the article. Something like, “In section ABC, change [this stuff] to [something like this] and add [this sentence] at the end” or something like that. And of course, it should all be based on your reading of specific, citable, reliable sources. Simply adding content based on your expertise, prior reading, or personal experience is not permitted. Can you please add your ideas of what to improve, and how, below? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 11:27, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The idea that these roles are patriarchal is not merely an interpretation: we have thousands of examples of non-patriarchal societies with non-prescriptive gender roles.

To present feminizing roles in BDSM as "universal" and non-patriarchal assumes hierarchies without historical or cultural basis.

The cited books document cultures with fluid and non-hierarchical gender roles; evidence is embedded throughout these texts, not limited to isolated pages.

Societies such as the Hopi, Haudenosaunee, Bugis, Minangkabau, Juchitecas, Q’ero, Mosuo, Akan, Khasi, Trobriand, Kihnu, Garo, and many others exhibit gender roles that do not fit into the simple male/female dichotomy presented in the article.

To suggest that feminizing roles in BDSM are patriarchal is to provide real context based on ethnographic and anthropological evidence, not speculation.

This is supported by ethnographic and anthropological research across multiple societies, demonstrating the diversity and fluidity of gender roles. Blanca Lap (talk) 21:45, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

I see this same thread was opened both here and on my talk page, so I'm copying over my response from there: To be clear: I agree with this and there's no need to convince me. An ideal version of the article should include this. Me reverting your edit was solely about the need to cite a source supporting it before it can be included in the article. I'm not saying this to be dismissive, I really do think we should find better sources to cite so we can include this.--Alexandra^IDV 21:50, 25 January 2026 (UTC)

I opened it in your talk page first by error and then I couldn't delete it.

My response remains the same. I'm still left unanswered when asking why does this article not need citations when it frames these gender roles as universal, yet the same doesn't apply when they are framed as patriarchal. I'm just curious. Depending on the answer, I'll proceed as follows. Blanca Lap (talk) 14:14, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

As it has been stated before, the article as it stands doesn't provide any source framing the gender roles mentioned in it as universal.

I made a quick analyses of the sources; anyone is welcomed to correct me; and I have seen no source providing evidence of the genders mentioned being universal.

1. Parks-Ramage, Jonathan (2016-08-08). "Das geheime Leben von Crossdressern". Vice (in German). Vice Media. Archived from the original on 2020-09-16. Retrieved 2020-06-28.

It's a journalistic report on the experiences of crossdressers. It only documents individual experiences; it does not generalize to all men or societies. It does not demonstrate universality.

2. Fischer, Nancy L.; Seidman, Steven (2016). Introducing the New Sexuality Studies (3rd ed.). Routledge. p. 351. ISBN 9781317449188.

It's an academic book on sexuality studies. Specific pages deal with kink practices and feminization. It contextualizes practices within certain groups; it does not claim that they are universal.

3. Parks-Ramage, Jonathan (2016-07-28). "'I Cross-Dress. Do You Still Love Me?': The Secret Lives of Sissies". Vice. Vice Media. Archived from the original on 2020-09-16. Retrieved 2020-06-28.

Similar to the first one, it's an interview/report on specific people. It's about individual experiences, not universal.

4. "Forced Feminization". Kinkly. 2019-10-28. Archived from the original on 2019-11-07. Retrieved 2020-06-28.

It's a guide/fact sheet on BDSM fantasies. It describes consensual role-play scenarios. It only describes the practice within the kink, not universal historical or cultural evidence.

5. Borresen, Kelsey (2018-10-24). "6 Of The Most Common Sexual Fantasies, According To Sex Workers". Huffington Post. Archived from the original on 2020-04-24. Retrieved 2020-07-01.

It's a newspaper article based on sex worker clients. It documents trends in a limited group; not universal.

6. Blue, Violet (2006). "7: Cross-Dressing and Sissies". Fetish Sex: An Erotic Guide For Couples. Daedalus Publishing. pp. 119–140. ISBN 1-881943-23-2.

It's a sexual guide for couples; describes BDSM and feminization. It applies to couple context, kink; does not generalize to all of humanity.

7. Lindemann, Danielle J. (2012). Dominatrix: Gender, Eroticism, and Control in the Dungeon. University of Chicago Press. pp. 167–169. ISBN 9780226482569.

It's a study of dominatrices and their clients. It's an observation of a specific subculture; no evidence of universality.

8. "Maid Training". Kinkly. 2017-05-09. Archived from the original on 2020-06-28. Retrieved 2020-06-28.

Feminization subscenario within kink. Specific practice, not universal.

9.  "Sissy Training". Kinkly. 2017-10-02. Archived from the original on 2019-11-07. Retrieved 2020-06-28.

Subscenario within BDSM. Specific to fetishistic practice; not universal.

10. Varrin, Claudia (1998). The Art of Sensual Female Dominance: A Guide for Women. Carol Publishing Group. pp. 53–61. ISBN 1-55972-447-1.

Guide for female dominants; techniques and practices. Only about couples or subcultures; not universal.

11. Boyd, Helen (2003). My Husband Betty: Love, Sex, and Life with a Crossdresser. Seal Press. pp. 176–179. ISBN 978-1-56025-515-4.

Testimony/biography about a crossdresser. Individual experience; not generalizable evidence.

12. "Slut Training". Kinkly. 2017-09-04. Archived from the original on 2020-07-07. Retrieved 2020-07-07.

Feminization scenario within BDSM. Only a specific role, not universal.

13. Ramet, Sabrina P. (1996). Gender reversals and gender cultures: anthropological and historical perspectives. Routledge. pp. 12–14. ISBN 978-0-415-11482-0. Archived from the original on 2014-06-17. Retrieved 2016-10-28.

Anthropological book; probably documents cases of gender role reversal in certain cultures. Could offer evidence of cultural variation, but does not claim that all men or societies do this.

14. Valens, Ana (2020-02-28). "Trans/Sex: Kink is affirming—and complicated—for trans women". The Daily Dot. Archived from the original on 2020-05-24. Retrieved 2020-07-02.

Article about the kink experiences of trans people. Individual experiences and a specific subculture; not universal.

15. Walker, Harron (2019-04-25). "Making Work in Her Own Image". Out. Pride Media. Archived from the original on 2020-05-28. Retrieved 2020-07-02.

Journalistic report/essay; describes artistic or creative feminization. Specific to certain groups; does not demonstrate universality.

Further reading: Gloria G. Brame (2000). Come Hither: A Commonsense Guide to Kinky Sex. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 978-0-684-85462-5.

General guide on sex and BDSM; includes feminization. Does not establish universality.

I have also checked the "femininity" page linked in the article, and it does state that what's considered a "feminine role" is a social construct, cultural, and varies across the globe.

I have also shared a book list of sources to support the idea that these roles are not universal, as shared before:

- Gender: An Ethnomethodological Approach by Suzanne Kessler and Wendy McKenna

1.- Foundations of Mutuality, Commons, and Cooperation

- Cooperative Evolution: Reclaiming Darwin's Vision by Christopher Bryant and Valerie A. Brown

- Debt: The First 5,000 Years by David Graeber

- Governing the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action by Elinor Ostrom

- Nurturing Our Humanity: How Domination and Partnership Shape Our Brains, Lives, and Future by P. Fry and Riane Eisler

- The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity by David Graeber and David Wengrow

2.- Indigenous, Ecological, and Embodied Knowledge

- A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn

- An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz

- Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants by Robin Wall Kimmerer

- Restoring the Kinship Worldview: Indigenous Voices Introduce 28 Precepts for Rebalancing Life on Planet Earth by Wahinkpe Topa (Four Arrows) and Darcia Narváez

- The Sacred Hoop: Recovering the Feminine in American Indian Traditions by Paula Gunn Allen

3.- Matriarchal Studies and Non-Kyriarchal Societies

- Afrikan Matriarchal Foundations: The Igbo Case by Ifi Amadiume

- Before War: On Marriage, Hierarchy and Our Matriarchal Origins by Elisha Daeva

- Female Power and Male Dominance: On the Origins of Sexual Inequality by Peggy Reeves Sanday

- Matriarchal Societies of the Past and the Rise of Patriarchy: West Asia and Europe by Heide Goettner-Abendroth

- Matriarchal Societies: Studies on Indigenous Cultures Across the Globe edited by Heide Goettner-Abendroth

- Re-Inventing Africa: Matriarchy, Religion and Culture by Ifi Amadiume

- Societies of Peace: Matriarchies of Past, Present and Future edited by Heide Goettner-Abendroth

- The Cultural Unity of Black Africa: The Domains of Patriarchy and of Matriarchy in Classical Antiquity by Cheikh Anta Diop

4.- Myth, Archaeology, and the Goddess Traditions

- Blood, Bread, and Roses: How Menstruation Created the World by Judy Grahn

- Language of the Goddess by Marija Gimbutas

- The Chalice and the Blade: Our History, Our Future by Riane Eisler

- The Civilization of the Goddess: The World of Old Europe by Marija Gimbutas

- The Goddesses and Gods of Old Europe: Myths and Cult Images by Marija Gimbutas

- The Great Cosmic Mother: Rediscovering the Religion of the Earth by Monica Sjöö

- When God Was a Woman: The Landmark Exploration of the Ancient Worship of the Great Goddess and the Eventual Supression of Women's Rites by Merlin Stone

5.- Origins and Mechanisms of Patriarchy

- Before We Were Trans: A New History of Gender by Kit Heyam

- Caliban and the Witch: Women, the Body and Primitive Accumulation by Silvia Federici

- The Creation Of Patriarchy: The Origins of Women's Subordination by Gerda Lerner

- The Patriarchs: How Men Came to Rule by Angela Saini

- The Rule of Mars: Readings on the Origins, History and Impact of Patriarchy edited by Cristina Biaggi

6.- Gender, Sexuality, and Cultural Variance

- Beyond the Second Sex: New Directions in the Anthropology of Gender by Peggy Reeves Sanday and Ruth Gallagher Goodenough

- Boy-Wives and Female-Husbands: Studies in African Homosexualities

- Freewomen, Patriarchal Authority, and the Accusation of Prostitution by Stephanie Lynn Budin

- Gender in the Ancient Near East by Stephanie Budin

7.- Extra:

  

- Dancing in the Flames: The Dark Goddess in the Transformation of Consciousness by Marion Woodman and Elinor Dickson

- Daughters of Mother Earth: The Wisdom of Native American Women by Barbara Alice Mann

- Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist by Frans de Waal

- El Reino de las Mujeres: El Último Matriarcado by Ricardo Coler

- God is Red: A Native View of Religion by Vine Deloria Jr.

- Growing Up in New Guinea by Margaret Mead

- Hawaii's Story by Hawaii's Queen by Liliʻuokalani

- Hommes, Femmes: la Construction de la Différence by Françoise Héritier

- I Don't: The Case Against Marriage by Clementine Ford

- I Trusted You: Fully and Honestly Speaking of Gendered Assault and the Way to a Rape-Free Culture by Nadine Rosechild Sullivan

- Intimate Fathers: The Nature and context of Aka Pygmy Paternal Infant Care by Barry Hewlett

- Iroquoian Women: The Gantowisas by Barbara Alice Mann

- Juchitán, la ciudad de las mujeres by Veronika Bennholdt-Thomsen

- Kinship to Kingship: Gender Hierarchy and State Formation in the Tongan Islands by Christine Ward Gailey

- La Plus Belle Histoire des Femmes by Françoise Héritier

- Le Féminin et le Sacré by Catherine Clément and Julia Kristeva

- Lost Goddesses of Early Greece: A Collection of Pre-Hellenic Myths by Charlene Spretnak

- Lost Goddesses: The Denial of Female Power in Cambodian History by Trudy Jacobsen

- Making Space for Indigenous Feminism by Joyce Green

- Masculin Féminin II: Dissoudre la Hiérarchie by Françoise Héritier

- Masculin/Féminin: La Pensée de la Différence by Françoise Héritier

- Monocultures of the Mind by Vandana Shiva

- Mother Nature: A History of Mothers, Infants, and Natural Selection by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy

- Mothers and Others: The Evolutionary Origins of Mutual Understanding by Sarah Blaffer Hrdy

- Native Men Remade: Gender and Nation in Contemporary Hawai'i by Ty P. Kāwika Tengan

- Of Woman Born: Motherhood as Experience and Institution by Adrienne Rich

- On becoming human by Tanner, Nancy Makepeace

- Oral Poetry: Its Nature, Significance and Social Context by Ruth Finnegan

- Re-enchanting the World: Feminism and the Politics of the Commons by Silvia Federici

- Sacred Instructions: Indigenous Wisdom for Living Spirit-Based Change by Sherri Mitchell

- Sacred Pleasure: Sex, Myth, and the Politics of the Body--New Paths to Power and Love by Riane Eisler

- Saharasia: The 4000 BCE Origins of Child Abuse, Sex-Repression, Warfare and Social VIolence, in the Deserts of the Old World by James DeMeo 

- Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies by Margaret Mead

- Sisters in Spirit: Haudenosaunee Influence on Early American Feminists bySally Roesch Wagner

- Taken from the Lips: Gender and Eros in Mesoamerican Religions by Sylvia Marcos

- The Alphabet Versus the Goddess: The Conflict Between Word and Image by Leonard Shlain

- The Falling Sky: Words of a Yanomami Shaman by Davi Kopenawa and Bruce Albert

- The Hero Cult: A Spectacle of World History That Changed Civilization by Harald Haarmann

- The Invention of Women: Making an African Sense of Western Gender Discourses by Oyeronke Oyewumi

- The Maternal Roots of the Gift Economy edited by Genevieve Vaughan

- The Myth of Sacred Prostitution in Antiquity by Stephanie Lynn Budin

- The Once and Future Goddess: A Symbol for Our Time by Elinor Gadon

- The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts by Mark S. Smith

- The Prehistory of Sex: Four Million Years of Human Sexual Culture by Timothy Taylor

- The Politics of Women's Spirituality: Essays by Founding Mothers of the Movement by Charlene Spretnak

- The Science of the Sacred: Bridging Global Indigenous Medicine Systems and Modern Scientific Principles by Nicole Redvers

- The Strange Order of Things: Life, Feeling, and the Making of Cultures by António Damásio

- The Subsistence Perspective: Beyond the Globalised Economy by Maria Mies and Veronika Bennholdt-Thomsen

- The Sweetness of Life: A Biography of the Patriarchy by Françoise Héritier

- The Well of Remembrance: Rediscovering the Earth Wisdom Myths of Northern Europe by Ralph Metzner

- The Woman in the Shaman's Body: Reclaiming the Feminine in Religion and Medicine by Barbara Tedlock

- The Women Founders: Sociology and Social Theory 1830-1930 by Patricia Madoo Lengermann and Gillian Niebrugge

- The Women’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara G. Walker 

- The “Deviant” African Genders That Colonialism Condemned by Mohammed Elnaiem

- Weaving the Past: A History of Latin America's Indigenous Women from the Prehispanic Period to the Present by Susan Kellogg

- Where War Began: A Military History of the Middle East from the Birth of Civilization to Alexander the Great and the Romans by Arthur Cotterell

- Who Cooked the Last Supper: The Women's History of the World by Rosalind Miles

- Wisdom Sits in Places: Landscape and Language Among the Western Apache by Keith H. Basso

- Witches and Pagans: Women in European Folk Religion, 700-1100 by Max Dashu

- Woman Scorned: Acquaintance Rape on Trial by Peggy R. Sanday

- Women at the Center: Life in a Modern Matriarchy by Peggy Reeves Sanday

- Women in Ancient Egypt: Revisiting Power, Agency, and Autonomy by Mariam F. Ayad

- Women of the Place: Kastom, Colonialism and Gender in Vanuatu by Margaret Jolly

- Woman's Creation: Sexual Evolution and the Shaping of Society by Elizabeth Fisher

- Yatdjuligin: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Nursing and Midwifery Care by Odette Best

This list of books and articles draws from anthropology, ethnography, historical studies, Indigenous knowledge, and cultural analysis. It provides insights into specific practices, social structures, and variations of gender, sexuality, and power across different societies and times. Blanca Lap (talk) 15:47, 26 January 2026 (UTC)

Numerous pre-colonial societies recognized diverse gender roles that do not fit a simple binary, and colonial narratives often reframed these roles negatively.

Scholars have documented that many societies historically recognized fluid or non-hierarchical gender roles, and that these were often misrepresented by European observers.

Here are two sources that directly address this claim and should satisfy the sourcing requirement:

- https://www.jstor.org/stable/3177985?mag=the-deviant-african-genders-that-colonialism-condemned

- https://daily.jstor.org/the-deviant-african-genders-that-colonialism-condemned Blanca Lap (talk) 17:01, 28 January 2026 (UTC)