Talk:Geert Wilders

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More information Article milestones, Date ...
Former good articleGeert Wilders was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 22, 2009Good article nomineeListed
April 2, 2024Good article reassessmentDelisted
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on September 6, 2019, September 6, 2022, and September 6, 2024.
Current status: Delisted good article
Close
More information For more information and how you can help, click the [Show] link opposite: ...
Close

Wilders-Saudi-Flag "Islam is Poison"

This should be included in the article (at the end of "Views about Islam"): http://geertwilders.nl/index.php/in-de-media-mainmenu-74/nieuws-mainmenu-114/1839-let-us-raise-a-flag-of-truth-and-liberation http://www.jpost.com/International/Saudi-Arabia-incensed-over-anti-Islam-campaign-by-far-right-Dutch-politico-352548 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.75.84.99 (talk) 18:30, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

External links

After removing a dubious external link earlier today I started looking at the remainder and I am troubled by some of them. The last three links on the list are, in my opinion, not suitable for a neutral encyclopaedic article. They all seem to me to be in contravenetion of What to link and should be removed.--Kalsermar (talk) 20:41, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

In the news

How about the end of the Geert Wilders trial for the "In the News" section of the main page? Polozooza (talk) 10:48, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

It is there now. --Kslotte (talk) 09:48, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

your — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.66.138.54 (talk) 00:26, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Geert Wilders received an invite to accept Islam and denounce Christianity by Sheik Faarooq al Mohammedi (a controversial preacher and mass Islamic Missionary) this story sparked a lot of outcries from the Anti-Islam/ Counter-Jihad groups. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.171.23.64 (talk) 14:39, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Indo

I think it is wrong and potentially confusing to our readers to put the moniker "Indo" in the opening sentence. His heritage is mentioned more than once in the article but Geert Wilders is known as a Dutch politician, not Indo-Dutch. It would be akin to identifying JFK, Ronald Reagan or Tip O'Neill for example as Irish-American and not simply as American.--Kalsermar (talk) 18:29, 9 September 2011 (UTC) She was a Jewess. he is therefore Jewish, or to suit wikipedia, "Dutch-Jewish" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.37.133.218 (talk) 19:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I noticed someone who wrote down "Indonesian-Dutch", which is incorrect. Indo is the corrept term - someone of Eurasian (European-Asian) admixture, more specific, in this case: Dutch-Indonesian descent. So I changed Indonesian-Dutch in Indo-Dutch, which is correct. Wilders' mother was of Indo(nesian) descent. I see no harm in keeping it this way. Polozooza (talk) 19:16, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
I didn't say it was incorrect, merely that it is out of place in the opening sentence. His heritage is amply discussed in the article.--Kalsermar (talk) 21:39, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

His mother was born in the Dutch East Indies (according to this article), which makes him a second-generation resident of the Netherlands. I find that it is appropriate to refer to him as Indo-Dutch, just as it is appropriate to refer to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, for a related example, as Somali-Dutch. People such as Ronald Reagan et al are of Irish ancestry, but the difference is that they were not second-generation residents. Interlaker (talk) 23:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Hirsi Al is not a very smart example to bring on here, she was born in Somalia from Somalian parents. But then Wilders: his Indo background is not a widely acknowledged fact, as we can gather from the NRC article that is used as a reference: "In June a genealogist said he had found several Indonesian ancestors of the populist Dutch politician", "The 6-page article reveals that Wilders' grandmother, Johanna Ording-Meijer, came from an old Jewish-Indonesian family". But even if supported by more sources than that one genealogist, first, we're talking about a far background here and second, I think Kalsermar rightly says it's out of place in the opening line, where we don't read words like 'agnostic', 'ex-Catholic', 'controversial', either. Only the very basic facts belong there. Apdency (talk) 19:32, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
There is no way that should be in the opening of the lede like that - I have doubts if it is more than the opinion of one person and doesn't belong in the article at all. We neveer (or at least almost never - unless it is highly notable) put ethnicity in the lede like that - its as per WP:mos nationality, this is even more so when it is disputed or partial as is the case here. Off2riorob (talk) 19:43, 19 September 2011 (UTC) Off2riorob (talk) 19:38, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
You got it completely right: we're dealing with someone's personal opinion here: "I want Wilders to be an Indo". If anyone dares to go against that, he labels it as vandalism, as we can see here. Wilders in no way belongs in a gallery of 'notable Indos'. Apdency (talk) 17:39, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


@Interlaker|talk]]) 23:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC) There is a big difference between his mother and Hirsi Ali. His mother was a Dutch citizen. Indo Dutch were Eurasians with the Dutch nationality and European status(Generally speaking)and not an Indonesian living in the Netherlands. In the Dutch Indies they were called Indo Europeans.

Wilders is of Indo(Indo European) or Eurasian decent through his mothers side. His grandmother was an Eurasian, also her parents,etc. Noordin28 (talk) 19:10, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

"Frits Bolkestein's views on Geert Wilders" section

It is very unusual to have a section completely dedicated to someone else's opinions on the subject of a biography. Should there be a separate section for every notable person's opinions of Geert Wilders? I do not think you will see this in any other biography in Wikipedia. Surely, this information should be integrated into the Public reception section. NereusAJ (talk) 02:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC) I decided to be bold and move the information myself. If any of the original authors disagree feel free to undo my change. NereusAJ (talk) 05:15, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The Public reception subsection is under the Early life and career section, but most of the information in it cannot be considered to be part of his early life. In fact a lot of the reactions mentioned are to his political career, which is a different section. I am suggesting we make the Public reception subsection into a separate section. I am editing the article to reflect this. NereusAJ (talk) 05:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

What does Frits think about Geerts paramilitary training on a Kibbutz? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.37.133.218 (talk) 19:26, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Got a source for that? Mythic Writerlord (talk) 19:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The founder

In the introduction, change

"and leader of the Party for Freedom (Partij voor de Vrijheid – PVV)"

to

"and the founder and leader of the Party for Freedom (Partij voor de Vrijheid – PVV)"

i.e. add the phrase "and the founder"—Thanks in advance. 67.101.7.175 (talk) 20:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Done, thanks. --Tyrannus Mundi (talk) 19:49, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Marked for Death: Islam's War Against the West and Me

Please change

" See also "

to

"Works"

  • Marked for Death: Islam's War Against the West and Me, Regnery Publishing (May 1, 2012), ISBN 1596987960

i.e. add the section Works with the title and publisher and release date and ISBN of his new book, thanks in advance.--87.163.232.152 (talk) 21:58, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Partly done: I added the “works” section, but there doesn't seem to be a reason for removing “see also”. --Six words (talk) 22:23, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

A Better Source Needed for Note #86

Here is a better one:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/23/uk-norway-killer-idUKTRE76M1OJ20110723

--77.125.82.29 (talk) 08:48, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Geert Wilders made a public announcement on his party's website: http://www.pvv.nl/index.php/component/content/article/36-geert-wilders/4529-verklaring-geert-wilders-noorwegen.html. It is Dutch written. HidingMyIP (talk) 01:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Henk and Ingrid is unlikely to ever get much bigger, as it's essentially just a political WP:DICDEF. I propose merging to Geert Wilders#Political principles, where they already get a one-sentence mention, to which we can add their description and function as a Dutch Average Joe. --BDD (talk) 01:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Done AIRcorn (talk) 11:13, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Far-right, not right-wing

Most reliable sources describe him as far-right, not right-wing. Right-wing is too indiscriminate as that term would even cover moderate conservatives like the Conservative Party of Norway, the CDU of Germany, or Jacques Chirac, hence it is POV. If some politician is described as far-right by RS, we describe them as far-right. We even have an article on far-right politics (heck, the guy has even been banned from entering the United Kingdom and been on trial for hate speech in his own country).

Relevant precedent:

Geert Wilders is described as a far-right politician for example in

There appears to be consensus to describe him as far-right, and I will change the article accordingly to reflect talk page consensus. JonFlaune (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

He is only rarely sometimes described as far right by Dutch language media. I propose the same as for the PVV, create a dedicated section for classifications, preferrably using scholarly sources. Andries (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
UK based newspapers are no experts on Dutch politicians. Andries (talk) 19:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
Willem Maas is Dutch. Al-Jazeera isn't British either. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
(ec)Can you back up your claim with some examples of Dutch mainstream sources?TMCk (talk) 19:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
"banned from entering the United Kingdom and been on trial for hate speech in his own country"
You make it seem so nazi-esque, when all he really did was stand up to Islamofash 46.7.28.113 (talk) 16:27, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

There is no consensus in sources to label him as far-right.Estlandia (Miacek) (dialogue) 19:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

When you reverted there was no discussion. No consensus starts with editors being opposed and discussion is taking place to reach consensus.TMCk (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
  • @Andries: Still waiting for examples from Dutch mainstream sources. Although there is no deadline, the edit in question will be reverted if opposition to it is not backed up by such sources in a reasonable time.TMCk (talk) 22:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
from newspaper Het Parool http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/224/BINNENLAND/article/detail/266418/2009/11/04/Is-Wilders-echt-extreem-rechts.dhtml English"Among others because of these "buts", as the researchers call them, the director of the Sociaal Cultureel Plan bureau, Paul Schnabel does not want to call the PVV extreme far right" Dutch original "Mede gezien deze 'mitsen en maren', zoals de onderzoekers het noemen, wil directeur Paul Schnabel van het Sociaal en Cultureel Planbureau (SCP) de PVV niet extreem rechts noemen. Andries (talk) 19:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
I still think that the extreme right label (see Wikipedia:LABEL#Contentious_labels) should be omitted or toned down in the lead and treated in a seperate section. Andries (talk) 19:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
Agree with that approach. Estlandia (Miacek) (dialogue) 19:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, when scholars describe him as far right, then also mention the definitions they use. I mean, it is an abstract classification and quite meaningless and uninformative when not explained. Andries (talk) 19:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Please provide English sources that demonstrate that the BBC, The Guardian, The Telegraph, The Independent, Agence France-Presse and the rest of the world press have got it all wrong. A discussion of whether the term "extreme" should be used (and hence your non-English source) is irrelevant to the use of the term far right (not extreme), which is the established English term, with its own article, for the political position to the right of mainstream/moderate conservatism. JonFlaune (talk) 01:46, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The Dutch term for far right is extreem rechts. Sorry for the mistranslation and the resulting confusion. Andries (talk) 17:52, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
What I meant to say is that foreign non-scholarly sources are not the best available sources and there is no consensus ãbout the far right label among Dutch sources. So he should not be labelled stated as a fact in the summary/intro. Andries (talk) 19:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
See also "The far-right anti-immigration party of Geert Wilders" by Michael Steen in The Financial Times quoted by Mark Steyn in nationalreview.com quoted by Fjordman in frontpagemag.com quoted in gatesofvienna. Visite fortuitement prolongée (talk) 20:03, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

The Dutch term extreem rechts is not relevant to whether we describe him as far right (not "extreem") in the English Wikipedia. Far right is the neutral, established generic term for the position to the right of the mainstream right. I see no sources demonstrating Wilders to be a part of the mainstream right-wing/mainstream conservatism. Mainstream conservatives are, after all, not usually banned from entering the United Kingdom. JonFlaune (talk) 21:44, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Far right is not a neutral term. Everybody agrees that he does not belong in te mainstream conservative class. Imho he is difficult to classify. His policies have described lately as quite left winged and I can easily get many sources for that. He is described as a populist and this is not denied by any reputable source that I am aware of. Andries (talk) 22:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
The guy is known internationally for extreme Islamophobic views and usually described by English language sources as far right. It might be the case that he has adopted some "left-wing" positions on some issues, but this isn't unique, in fact many far right groups (e.g. the NPD) combine far right views with left-wing views on economic policy for example. Are the any examples of Wilders denouncing Islamophobia and taking a stand against racism and prejudice against minorities? JonFlaune (talk) 23:43, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
Islamophobia is in itself a very loaded term that is often used as a synonym for '(strong) criticism of Islam'. When it comes to immigration, Wilders can certainly be described as far-right, and I think few would dispute that. Although the charge is sometimes made, even mainstream critics of Wilders recognize that he does not engage in racism (Islam is not a race). He is indeed prejudiced against people from Muslim-majority countries (according to him justifiably, of course). Therefore, I do support the designation 'far-right', but it would be nice if something on his economic views was added. - Lindert (talk) 13:36, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
Your or my opinion is not relevant. What I am saying is that he should not be labelled as far right stated as fact in the summary, because there is no consensus among the best available sources. And also because it violates Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Contentious_labels. The term far-right is now mentioned twice in the lead, once, not stated as a fact is enough. Andries (talk) 11:16, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
You keep saying that but still haven't provided sources that back up your claim.TMCk (talk) 17:38, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
I provided one good source that denies Wilders is far right. this proves that there is no consensus. Andries (talk) 17:41, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
One single source is hardly enough to counter numerous others. Here is an interesting read:.TMCk (talk) 17:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Please no newspaper article titles as sources. Just because a journalist titles something far-right, that's not necessarily a valid description accepted by political scientists. For example, a while ago newspapers titled SYRIZA as far-left but that's not really what academics say. We should leave journalist wordings out. --Pudeo' 04:35, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you have been counter productiv with your choice of comparrison. SYRIZA is a redirect to Coalition of the Radical Left. Wonder why you left that out and chose the redirect instead of the article's title.TMCk (talk) 05:43, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah maybe, but I'm not really interested in the classification of SYRIZA, I'm just saying that journalistic sources are inferior to actual scientific papers related to the PVV and Wilders. So collecting "far-right" (or "far-left") terms from the Telegraph, Guardian BBC or the like is pretty useless and does not constitute a real source analyzing the political position. --Pudeo' 05:54, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Actually we do quite commonly use news sources to describe political leanings of subjects on WP; And we have one book source cited. I just added a PDF of the chapter in question for easy verification.TMCk (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
A journalist titling "Far-right politician Geert Wilders" is not an analysis of his political position. Do you understand what I mean? A political scientist writing a paper on the PVV is a completely different type of a source. Do you really think the BBC journalist Lauren Comiteau for example is an authority on political science? Sure, real news analyses can be added but just lumping a bunch of news articles that only have far-right in the title is of no use. If we need more sources than one, let's find them from scholarly articles. --Pudeo' 18:41, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I do get your point even so I don't concur with you by wiki policies/guidelines. However, I do concur with you that one source (the book source from a Dr. of a university) will do. All the other sources were added while there was a heated discussion and warring was going on.TMCk (talk) 02:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
If that's the case then you should update the Definition and terminology section on the Far-right politics WP article to state that journalists' opinions is the deciding factor when determining what "Far-right" means and who deserves to wear that badge. HoorayForZo1dberg (talk) 02:47, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

81.58.144.30 (talk) 15:17, 20 February 2013 (UTC)He is not far-right. I am Dutch and I could say he is right-wing.

Why don't we call him what he calls himself, instead of trying force a label on him that may or may not be accurate? It is important not to try to slander someone with inappropriate terms.

People don't get to choose their own descriptions in an encyclopedia. I'm Dutch and it's my opinion that he's far-right, even extreme right. In fact, there are no political parties in the Netherlands that are farther right and that can be supported by evidence. Rightfully in the discussion above, scientific evidence was asked in addition to the journalistic evidence that was already given about the stance on the (far-)right scale. It is not that hard to find such evidence. A quoted paper is this one: "De beeldspraak van geert wilders, een tsunami over Nederland?" by Christ’l De Landtsheer, Lieuwe Kalkhoven & Loes Broen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appiehendriks (talk • contribs) 00:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

GA status

This article has changed quite a bit since it was passed . The prose does not currently meet the GA standards. Too many short sentences and two much news ticker (in July 2011, on 2 October 2011 etc) type sentences. It needs a good copy edit. AIRcorn (talk) 11:21, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Source makes no mention of "Captain Peroxide": Citation Needed

Hi. In the background section it claims: "Wilders has acquired nicknames such as "Mozart" and "Captain Peroxide" because of his flamboyant platinum blond hairstyle." However, follow the link to the BBC report that gives this quote its citation and nowhere will one find the claim that Wilders has acquired the nickname "Captain Peroxide." Shouldn't this oversight require a [citation needed] inserted into the body of this article until the proper citation is given or the claim is removed? Otherwise, it remains a spurious and unsubstantiated claim which if left unaddressed will detract from this otherwise rather factual article. Thanks114.158.149.78 (talk) 05:56, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Beware of aging or aged male politicians with blond hair. Sca (talk) 16:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Wilders converts to Islam?

Could someone verify this? http://saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130422162428 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.43.27 (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect. Wilders has not converted. That page speaks about Arnoud van Doorn who has - indeed - converted to islam. It is incorrectly stated that Van Doorn is a "leader" of the Freedom Party; in fact, he was only a member of the city council of The Hague for two years. Never a national politician. He was then expelt from the Freedom Party for mismanagement of party funds of the Freedom Party's local The Hague chapter. Van Doorns conversion to islam took place a few months ago, a few years after his expulsion from the Freedom Party.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 13:18, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Dutch pronunciation

Could someone who is Dutch-speaking create an audiofile with the correct pronunciation of Geert Wilders? /Marxmax (talk) 09:20, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that the pronunciation would actually vary by dialect. Some dialects more or less merge /ɣ/ with /x/, others keep them distinct. This is particularly noticeable when /ɣ/ is in a word-initial position. 2600:8805:A801:B600:6AC4:389B:97DD:8E91 (talk) 18:09, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 October 2014 - New section after "Wilders and Germany" (Wilders, Poland and other Central and East European countries)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2014 Geert Wilders is not a populist, this is an opinion. The first sentence in this article needs to be changed accordingly.

Request for Comments

Attack in Garland, Texas

External links modified

External links modified

External links modified

External links modified

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2016

WP:EVADE edits by blocked user Ghangoun

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2017

The Netherlands

In the United States

New profile picture photo

Semi-protected edit request on 13 March 2017

Far-right?

External links modified

External links modified

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2018

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2019

Businessman

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2022

however? ->French National Front a 'wrong rightist facist group'?

Not a Philosopher

Not Considered Prime-Minister Elect of the Netherlands

Ethnicity

Can someone edit this duplication, please?

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2024

Wilders' Signature

Wilders gives up on attempting to be PM.

GA Reassessment

Geert Wilders enjoys Mario Kart on Nintendo (not Playstation, that's an error)

Far-right

Clarification

Incorrect geography

10 year old picture

Update picture?

Called “utterly evil”

Rewrite & international initiatives

Related Articles

Wikiwand AI