Talk:Government attacks on journalists during the Trump presidencies

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. Given this enough relistings at this point. There isn't enough here to call it a consensus for either side, and especially not when there is quite a bit of disagreement what to even do with the article as a whole. (non-admin closure) ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley${\displaystyle \lor }$investigateᛅ} 21:24, 27 April 2026 (UTC)

Government attacks on journalists during the Trump presidencies → ? – There are two ways to approach this subject matter: chronologically, about the entire US over the past decade, or focusing on the Trump presidencies and federal activity. Splitting the baby should be off the table. Currently, non-federal attacks on journalists such as the Puerto Rico incidents are implied to be the result of the Trump presidency by the title. The article does not establish this logical chain. As the title determines the focus of the article, this is not a trivial issue. So I have two proposed titles, which will determine the scope of the article: Federal violence against journalists during the Trump presidencies, or American governmental violence against journalists (2016 - present). Bremps... 03:33, 17 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 09:05, 30 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley${\displaystyle \lor }$investigateᛅ} 04:24, 12 April 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley${\displaystyle \lor }$investigateᛅ} 20:10, 20 April 2026 (UTC)

That is to say, if this article is not merged back into timeline of government attacks on journalists in the United States. There needs to be a solid justification for the section on Trump to be isolated out, otherwise it risks becoming a WP:Coatrack about government attacks on journalists from 2016-2021 to 2025 onwards (such as during the George Floyd protests where the section does not say Trump incited, directed, or held command responsibility for attacks). An article about events with a tangential connection to Trump would not serve readers. Bremps... 03:45, 17 March 2026 (UTC)

Oppose I don't think the proposed article moves will change the scope in any way, except for introducing inconsistencies between this article and Timeline of government attacks on journalists in the United States' naming conventions. "During the Trump presidencies" specifies that these are government attacks that occurred during Trump 1/2, so it does not imply Trump is the direct result of all of these attacks, but rather that the attacks happened during his presidencies. "by the Trump administration" or something like this would be problematic, but I avoided this wording precisely to avoid directly attributing everything in this article to Trump.

As for needing a solid reason for Trump to be isolated out, here are my reasons:

• More attacks on journalists have occurred during the Trump presidencies than during any other presidency in US history.
• Trump has been characterized by WP:RS advocacy groups (e.g., Reporters Without Borders) and scholarly consensus as contributing to democratic backsliding in the United States to a degree unprecedented in the country's entire history, largely via targeting the press.
• The timeline article is extremely long. I initially wrote it hoping it would be a home for Trump-era attacks on journalists because I knew back then that attacks on journalists during Trump would occur at an increasing frequency. I was right, but I was surprised by how many historical instances of attacks on journalists I encountered and the article eventually became monstrous. And when a main article becomes difficult to navigate easily, that warrants splitting into an article with a smaller scope per WP:SIZESPLIT, and that article has exceeded the 10k word limit (it's 11.9k words).
• Many people do not care about historical instances of attacks on journalists and just want to read about Trump because he is such an independently notable figure. This article makes it easier for those people to navigate Trump-era attacks on journalists.
• I included the democratic backsliding press template so you can verify for yourself that Trump-era press targeting is a serious and notable topic that deserves unique articles.

Alexandraaaacs1989 (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

1. I can't see that specific claim in your article, though I do see people saying government activity against journalists increased since 2016, during Trump's campaign. Unless there is a documented die-down when Biden became president and an uptick when he left, with a causal relation, then we're excluding a four year period for no real reason.

2. I have no problem with a split, so long as we're doing it chronologically. A four year gap is odd.

3. That's not a policy argument, rather, it contravenes policy. Stating that you're adding Trump's name in because he attracts attention rather than being related is against the spirit of Wikipedia:No original research. Furthermore read WP:NOBLECAUSE about attracting attention.

4. If you wish to make that argument, then boldly make the case that the Trump administration attacks journalists, and that this subject is notable. Right now, we're in some no man's land with Trump being wink-nod associated with a protest in Puerto Rico and protests that occurred under Obama. Why not bundle in cases of violence against journalists during the Hong Kong protests and the Algeria protests as well?

Ultimately, original research is a big issue, as we're trying to connect disparate cases of government suppression of journalists to some broader trend even when reliable sources have not made that call. I'd rather Timeline of government attacks on journalists in the United States not be sorted by presidential administration, but that's an issue for later. Bremps... 19:26, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

WP:OR says This policy does not apply to talk pages and other pages, so no none of this is WP:OR.

we're trying to connect disparate cases of government suppression of journalists to some broader trend even when reliable sources have not made that call Not true, Reporters Without Borders said "after a century of gradual expansion of press rights in the United States, the country is experiencing its first significant and prolonged decline in press freedom in modern history, and Donald Trump's return to the presidency is greatly exacerbating the situation". There are many other sources alleging a pattern of Trump being responsible press freedom backsliding, just a few from this week including: . So yes other sources have made the call that Trump is notable insofar as he is responsible for press freedom backsliding, and this would include government attacks in the United States on journalists.

1 and 2. I agree with you that Biden contributed to government attacks on journalists. But doesn't it strike you as odd including government attacks on journalists during Trump 1, during Trump 2, and also during Biden? I don't think chronology is enough of a reason to cluster them all together when Trump has been significantly more notable and brazen in his targeting of the press than Biden. People come here to learn about things that happened during Trump, and moving to Government attacks on journalists during the Trump and Biden presidencies just feels arbitrary and clunky. Trump is much more independently notable than Biden and so I think it makes sense to tailor this article specifically around Trump. People will see a 4-year break and understand because in the article's title, we claimed it's about Trump and not Biden. And there's a link at the top to a timeline page, where they can learn more about Biden.

3. This wasn't a WP:NOBLECAUSE, please do not make WP:ASPERSIONS. It was a practical step I took in preparation for Trump's attacks on journalists, which let me remind you I accurately predicted. And splitting an article because it is long in no way contravenes policy, since WP:SIZESPLIT specifically encourages splitting large articles. And I'm not adding Trump's name in just because he attracts attention; I'm adding his name in because he has attracted WP:RS attention via his targeting of the press.

4. Right now, we're in some no man's land with Trump being wink-nod associated with a protest in Puerto Rico and protests that occurred under Obama Again, the language of the title says "during", so no we are not directly attributing everything in this article to Trump. We are detailing instances of press oppression that happened at least in part during his presidencies. Alexandraaaacs1989 (talk) 20:31, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for the speedy reply. I don't think there's much more I can say in response to this without repeating myself or distracting from the move discussion. I might come back to these issues in the future but I'll let the move discussion play out first. Bremps... 23:37, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Sounds good! Alexandraaaacs1989 (talk) 19:26, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Comment: This entire article takes a POV that connects the Trump presidencies to various events. Were journalists also treated poorly during the Biden administration? I have no idea. Guz13 (talk) 20:07, 18 March 2026 (UTC)

Yes, there were three notable instances of attacks on journalist during Biden's (from what I could find, feel free to make additions). So far during Trump 2 (not including his first term), there have been 9 attacks and we're barely over a year into his term. Alexandraaaacs1989 (talk) 19:29, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

• Strong support per nom, especially American governmental violence against journalists (2016 - present). We cannot be grouping these attacks together under the trump administration when our reliable sources aren't treating them as such. Red Slash 05:10, 24 March 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Conservatism, WikiProject Presidents of the United States/Donald Trump task force, WikiProject 2010s, WikiProject Human rights, WikiProject Journalism, WikiProject Law, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WikiProject Media, WikiProject Freedom of speech, WikiProject United States Government, WikiProject Politics/American politics, and WikiProject History have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 09:07, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

Oppose This needs to be handled carefully and I agree with those who see this as a potential POV Fork. "Federal violence against..." is a very strong POV and is the sort of term we should only use if the majority of sources are using it. I also agree with those who say this should be merged into the larger topic. Having a Trump specific section, even if it is more content, risks a POV fork. Springee (talk) 14:32, 12 April 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose - the title is accurate for the article as it is and there no need to move. --PoliticalPoint (talk) 20:19, 25 April 2026 (UTC)