Talk:Hesperides

I removed the reference to a location in Arcadia. I couldn't find a reference to the Garden of the Hesperides being in Arcadia.

I removed Libya as a site for the Atlas Mountains. Libya had distractingly different mythic connotations for the Greeks, too.

I think a reference to four Hesperides sounds like a mistake.I would like to remove or check those "extra" names: I suspect a "goddess" website, they are a mixed bag (Arethusa?) with a lot of variations on Hesperis ("western") to fill out the list. Spurious?

Put back any of these references if I'm mistaken. Wetman 14:34, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I've now added a note explaining how Arcadia came to be confused with the Garden of the Hesperides. The experienced reader will understand that four nymphs is impossible: even if there are some alternative names, the nymphs are a trinity. --Wetman 22:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

The extra names (as well as the variants of numbers) came from The Meridian Handbook of Classical Mythology, by Edward Tripp, a 1970 publication by an imprint of Penguin Books. It also lists Libya as one of the possible locations of the Garden. I think the Arcadian Mountains reference was from an earlier edit...I'm not sure what the basis for that is. The thing to remember with mythology, however, is that there are plenty of varying stories in the classical sources. Please be cautious in removing information just because you personally can't find a reference to it, unless it's implausible. Just a little bit of book research would have shown that at the very least, there is not agreement in the stories on where the garden is located. Postdlf 16:03 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The intelligent and thoughtful way way to return a bit of text that had been temporarily placed here is to return it. Not merely to revert. Extermely poor manners. Wetman 17:47, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but it was purely a matter of efficiency in editing. Making a mess out of the article is not the way to respond—I'll have to clean it up later when I have more time. Postdlf 18:18 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"The thing to remember with mythology, however, is that there are plenty of varying stories in the classical sources." The third-hand invocations of "some versions" still (January 2007) need particular sources to be added to the article as <ref></ref> notes. The mythology in this article is as gawmless as the Zodiac babble. I removed all but the briefest link to Busiris. I'd add one of those "cleanup" tags, if they weren't such a cheapened device. --Wetman 22:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is biased off of facts, not opinion. In a scenerio of mythological origin in which varying stories occur, it doesn't matter which story you personally believe to be true. It's raw information that we're looking for. MelancholyPanda (talk) 02:31, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Text says:

Directly above Libra is the constellation Ursa Minor.

Hrrmmph!? Directly above? Geophysically, it depends on where on Earth you stand and what time it is. However, Ursa Minor is north of everything, because it contains the celestial north pole. For the rest we have the following sources to use:

• Hyginus at Online Text: Hyginus, Astronomia translated by Mary Grant
• Aratus at Online text: Aratus, Phaenomena translated by G. R. Mair, 1921
• And the rest of the Theoi project: katasterismoi.

Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 20:04, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

This section needs tying to sources, like Robert Brown, Jr. Researches into the Origin of the Primitive Constellations of the Greeks, Phœnicians and Babylonians (1900)-- which I don't know. Is there anything like this in Aratus, pseudo-Eratosthenes, Hyginus? --Wetman 19:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

This unsourced, apparently fantastical material was entered by banned User:-Ril- in an edit of 09:49, 30 January 2005. I have deleted it.--Wetman 20:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

"The Euboean Greek poet Hesiod said that the ancient name of Cádiz was Erytheia, another name for the Hesperides." No, Hesiod did not mention Gades (Cadiz), though he mentioned "sea-circled Erytheis" and "weater-washed Erytheis". Inserting Cadiz here, as if Hesiod made the connection, is spurious.--Wetman (talk) 01:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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First it is said that this Garden was located in North Africa. Then in the next sentence, it is said that according to Stesichorus, and Strabo, the Garden is located in the Iberian peninsula. But that is simply contradictory! --Joe Gatt (talk) 18:26, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

That is because all of the available sources on Greek mythology contradict each other. It is practically impossible to find any two ancient authors who actually agree on every single detail of a mythological account. --Katolophyromai (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

I am writing to formally propose the inclusion of the Sardo-Corso-Atlantideo Paradigm (PSCA) as a significant modern hypothesis regarding the geography of the ancient Mediterranean.

This proposal is based on the recent publication of the decisive paper by researcher Luigi Usai:

Usai, L. (2025). Localizzazione del leggendario Giardino delle Esperidi (S'Hortu de Is Hisperdius, ossia l'Orto degli Smarriti) a Fruttidoro di Capoterra. Zenodo. [https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.17741889] Revisiting the Geo-Mythological Cartography of the Western Mediterranean: Archaeological and Morphological Correlates of ‘Lake Tritonis’ in Southern Sardinia

The Core Argument: The Evidence Was Always There

The most striking aspect of this research is not merely the proposal of a new theory, but the demonstration that the hard data supporting it has existed for decades, yet remained unconnected by mainstream academia due to interpretative fragmentation.

The archaeological artifacts (Mycenaean tripods), the geological data (bathymetry of the submerged shelf), and the toponyms have historically been available to scholars. However, without the correct geographical framework, their connection to the Herodotean and Platonic narratives went unnoticed.

Summary of the Empirical Identifications:

1. The Garden of the Hesperides (Re-identified as Capoterra/Fruttidoro, Sardinia):
   • The Evidence: The paper identifies the location based on a micro-topographical convergence of the "Atlas" mountains and the "Tritonis" waters.
   • Etymological Breakthrough: The mythological name Hesperides is proposed as a Greek transliteration of the Paleo-Sardinian locution "S'Hortu de Is Hisperdius" (literally "The Garden of the Lost/Shipwrecked ones"). This transforms the myth into a record of ancient contact.
   • Toponymic Persistence: The modern name of the location, Fruttidoro (Golden Fruits), is not a modern invention but a semantic fossil preserving the memory of the "Golden Apples" (chrysea mela), located exactly where the ancient sources place them.
2. Lake Tritonis (Re-identified as the Cagliari Lagoon System):
   • The Evidence: Apollonius of Rhodes describes a vast, shallow basin with a narrow, treacherous outlet to the sea. This description does not match the Tunisian Chotts (which are inland salt flats) but perfectly matches the Paleo-hydrography of the Cagliari/Santa Gilla lagoons in the Late Bronze Age.
   • Archaeological Confirmation: The presence of Cypriot-Mycenaean rod tripods (LH IIIC) found in situ (at Selargius and Santadi) mirrors the myth of the Argonauts offering a tripod to the local god Triton to find their way out of the lake. This data exists in museum catalogs but was never linked to the myth until now.
3. Mount Atlas (Re-identified as the Sulcis Massif):
   • The Evidence: Diodorus Siculus places Atlas near the Ocean and the Lake. The Sulcis Mountains (specifically Monte Arcosu) rise directly from the western sea and overlook the Cagliari lagoons, satisfying the triangulation that is geometrically impossible in North Africa.

Why This Matters for Wikipedia

Currently, Wikipedia entries treat these locations as either "mythical" or tentatively North African, despite the glaring geographical inconsistencies of the traditional model. The PSCA offers a coherent, falsifiable model where mythology acts as a portolan chart, validated by existing physical evidence.

It is scientifically remarkable that such a density of congruent data (Archaeology + Geology + Philology) concentrated in a radius of 20km in Southern Sardinia has gone unnoticed by the academic community for so long.

I respectfully request that editors review the cited paper and consider adding a section on the "Sardo-Corso Identification Hypothesis" to the relevant articles (Hesperides, Lake Tritonis, Atlas), as ignoring this synthesis of existing data would result in an incomplete representation of current geo-mythological research.

Sincerely yours

~2025-35497-98 (talk) 03:20, 30 November 2025 (UTC)

For the interested, this seems to be some claptrap about "discovering Atlantis". To the IP (who is presumably Mr. Usai himself), see WP:FRINGE. – Michael Aurel (talk) 03:57, 30 November 2025 (UTC)