Talk:List of Sofia the First episodes

This episode is the second episode of the 3rd season, not the finale of the second. The most effective source is the airdate. It can't possibly be the finale of season 2 if it was aired after the season 3 Premiere. That, and Disney Wiki lists it as the second episode of season 3. SkyGuy1994 (talk) 18:38, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Disney Wiki is not a valid reference, so that rationale is out the window. Air date only determines when an episode aired, it doesn't determine anything about whether or not the episode was intended to be a S2 or S3 ep. TV episodes get moved around all the time per the whims of the network's programming department, so you cannot reasonably draw a conclusion that if a S2 episode airs after S3 begins, that it must be a S3 episode. You seem to be getting hung up on the concept of "premiere" and "finale", which are fancy words that connote some special planned event, as opposed to just the being the humdrum start and end of a season. We're not talking about the beginning and end of Breaking Bad, we're talking about a cartoon that is intended to be shown in no particular order for the remainder of the year.

Now a production code, (or more accurately in this case, an episode code) would indicate whether or not the series was in the second or third season. Since "Minimus is Missing" is demonstrably listed as episode 223 Archived 2016-03-03 at the Wayback Machine, and there are no duplicate episode 223s, it is entirely assumptive and without basis to assert that the episode belongs in S3. Hope that helps. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:33, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

No it doesn't. It just seems so unlikely that it can be a season 2 episode when it aired after season 2 ended. Then again, the Cartoon Network series, Star Wars The Clone Wars, was nearly always aired out of in-universe order, so I guess Disney could do the same with this one. SkyGuy1994 (talk) 22:39, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Minimus if Missing is part of season 2 because of it's production code. Gatordragon (talk) 01:44, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

It just seems so unlikely that it can be a season 2 episode when it aired after season 2 ended. A season ends when the last episode from that season airs. There is no contract between us and Disney that says they must air all S2 episodes before they start airing S3. Sorry that this conflicts with your worldview, but if you think there is such a promise, we'll wait for you to procure proof. Until then, speculative. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 06:34, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Minimus is Missing is officially a Season 3 episode, the second one of that season to be specific. There shouldn't even be a discussion about this. It's so ridiculous. And, oh look, now it says Season 1 has 29 episodes, despite no such number of episodes existing in that season. What's going on? 130.204.81.214 (talk) 23:54, 15 November 2015 (UTC)(UTC)

Your assertion that it is "officially a Season 3 episode" does not equate to a fact, which is why there absolutely should be a discussion about it. As previously noted, it is demonstrable through the primary source that it was coded as a S2 episode, with seven other episodes being coded after it. Per your perspective, we'd have to disregard or refactor all of the production coding to fit your personal perspective. Episode 224 would become 223. Episode 301 would become 230. That's ridiculous. The fact that the episode aired after S3 was released is completely irrelevant to this discussion for two reasons: 1) There is no indication from sourced prose in the article that the program is serialized, so there's no logical way to argue that the series has to be aired in the order produced. 2) The network can air any series in any order it wishes. So, either find a reliable source that proves this was produced as a S3 episode or drop the stick. The persistent edit-warring and "nuh uh!" debates are becoming tiresome and will result in article protection and sanctions if appropriate. So far, no suitable reference has been provided to support your perspective. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 00:59, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

No, there shouldn't be a discussion about it, because the episode has already aired and everywhere after its airing says that it's the second episode of Season 3. I bet your sources are outdated. Show them so that everyone can see them! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.204.81.214 (talk) 06:41, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I've already provided my reference at the top of this discussion. The same reference is used in the article to support production codes. This discussion is waiting for you to provide your references. Note that user-generated references are insufficient. Discussion forums, IMDb, TV.com, TVTropes, Wikia, and even Wikipedia itself may not be used as references. (See WP:TVFAQ, WP:RS/IMDB, WP:RS, WP:UGC) Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

There are no references or valid arguments all over the internet about Minimus is Missing being officially a Season 2 episode. Look anywhere and it says it's the second episode of Season 3. That's how they aired it, and that's how it's labeled all over the internet.^[1][2][3]130.204.81.214 (talk) 19:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

What's the explanation again? I can't think of anything outside the ProdCode and those are not valid either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.204.81.214 (talk) 19:15, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I agree. Disney Wiki is a valid source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darth Metaknight (talk • contribs)

Darth Metaknight I've moved your comment to the bottom of the discussion because it is unclear who you were talking to or what you're specifically agreeing with. Wikis are not valid sources. This is well-established community consensus. See WP:UGC, which says: self-published media—whether books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, personal pages on social networking sites, Internet forum postings, or tweets—are largely not acceptable. This includes any website whose content is largely user-generated, including the Internet Movie Database (IMDB), CBDB.com, content farms, collaboratively created websites such as wikis, and so forth. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 23:20, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Just chiming in to say that I think Cyphoid and the others supporting classifying the episode based no its production code have this issue well-covered. Those wishing for the episode to be classified based on airdate should provide reliable sources to back-up their viewpoint. At that point it may be necessary to have a discussion regarding whether episodes should be classified based on production order or airing order. I know with regards to Futurama the decision was made to use the production order, and to me that makes a great deal of sense, but I'm unfamiliar with this particular show. DonIago (talk) 20:26, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I disagree in general with classifying seasons based on production codes. The network defines what a season is and they can pick and choose among any produced episode from any production run what to put in whatever they define a season to be. Generally the production runs and seasons match but not always. Production codes are just sequence numbers used by the production team for accounting and planning purposes. All they give is info on a production order and sequence and have no other meaning before being delivered to the network for airing. However in this case the network itself is showing the episode in question as a season 2 episode and we should go with what the network says. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:43, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I find this discussion absolutely ridiculous and dumb. This has got to be the only Sofia the First episodes list in existance to feature "Minimus is Missing" as a Season 2 episode. Any reasons whatsoever to not list the episode as a Season 3 episode are completely null and void. Seems like their only justification is the Production Code number, even thought ProdCodes tend to not always be consistent with the episodes.130.204.81.214 (talk) 09:08, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

130.204.81.214 - What's ridiculous and dumb about this discussion, is that you've had three months to dig up a reliable source and bring it to this discussion but you still haven't done that, choosing instead to sneakily restore the article to match your worldview. Contrarily, I've produced the Disney episode list that clearly calls it a Season 2 episode, and that clearly indicates a S2 production code Archived 2016-03-03 at the Wayback Machine as the cherry on top. How about the copyright record that indicates Disney filed it as S2 episode 23? You've brought nothing to this discussion. If you can't provide a reliable published source, like a magazine, a news article, news website, trade website article, (no blogs, no wikis) that supports your version, then your argument is meaningless, and your long-term edit-warring is disruptive. As I told you in November 2015, "either find a reliable source that proves this was produced as a S3 episode or drop the stick." Consensus has already been established to list it in season 2. Editing against consensus is disruptive and inconsistent with a community editing project. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

There are no references or valid arguments all over the internet about Minimus is Missing being officially a Season 2 episode. Look anywhere and it says it's the second episode of Season 3. That's how they aired it, and that's how it's labeled all over the internet.^[4][5][6]130.204.81.214 (talk) 19:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

This seems to be more complicated. Zap2it lists "Minimus is Missing" as S02E28 and "Cool Hand Fluke" as S03E01. However, Amazon and iTunes list "Cool Hand Fluke" before "Minimus is Missing" (Amazon lists it as S02E29, iTunes uses volumes rather than seasons). Therefore, I think we should list both under season 2, as this seems to be the case of an episode produced for season 3 airing during season 2, not the other way around, given how it's being sold and also considering the one-month gap between "Minimus and Missing" and "Cedric Be Good". nyuszika7h (talk) 18:29, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Nyuszika7H - Thanks for participating in the discussion. iTunes doesn't order by season, they order by "volume". Amazon's ordering is questionable as well, since they have a Season 101 in the pulldown, which is dubious. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:28, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: "Season 101" is just a placeholder for the pilot, so I don't think that's relevant in this case. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:37, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't think what Zap2it says is of particular importance when it comes to disputes for fact-checking. It's not always a reliable third party. I just posted examples of it on their talk page this week. Ranze (talk) 07:53, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Since the stonewalling IP editor has not responded with any new arguments or references despite a direct invitation and having made numerous edits since February 26, I am moving the episode back to S2 per references and consensus. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:55, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

There are no references or valid arguments all over the internet about Minimus is Missing being officially a Season 2 episode. Look anywhere and it says it's the second episode of Season 3. That's how they aired it, and that's how it's labeled all over the internet.^[7][8][9]130.204.81.214 (talk) 19:09, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

130.204.81.214 Wikia, IMDB and TV.com are all user-contributed sources, so none of them are relevant to this discussion, as has previously been explained. You're selectively ignoring the Disney website, the single strongest reference, when you say "There are no references or valid arguments all over the internet about Minimus is Missing being officially a Season 2 episode." Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I haven't modified its seasonal placement on the list, but I noticed an archive link had been added supposedly supporting its placement in season 2. I cleaned it up with the proper templating:

• "Sofia the First". DisneyABCpress.com. Archived from the original on 3 March 2016. SEASON 2 EPISODES
  EPISODE 318 AIR DATE: 02/08/16 "THE SECRET LIBRARY: OLAF AND THE TALE OF MISS
  EPISODE 223 AIR DATE: 08/13/15 "MINIMUS IS MISSING"

The problem I see in relying on disneyabcpress.com/disneyjunior/shows/sofia-the-first/episodes/ is that it also lists Olaf and the Tale (of Miss Nettle) under the season 2 label as well.

So basically, if we're to use that to argue that MIM is s2, we must also conclude TSL:OATTOMN is also s2, even though that seems clearly wrong when we look at the numbering.

It seems obvious by the episode code that MIM was produced in the season 2 batch and intended to be part of its season, but that doesn't necessarily mean that in the final run they decided to include it. The choice to move it from its s2 home to s3 might have been last minute. Ranze (talk) 07:48, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Aside from personal opinion and speculation, what other facts do you have? I don't mean that to be rude, but we're no closer at solving the mystery. All we have is what Disney published on their website, contrasted against hunches and feelings from viewers. I don't know the series, so I don't understand the argument about Olaf. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:35, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Everyone who views this page: Look on Netflix. I did. It has "Minnimus is Missing" as season two episode thirty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melissa Hastings (talk • contribs) 22:19, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

First there are 24 episodes in season 1 (as shown in the list,) not 29. Second every source that I can find states that the episode "Minimus is Missing" comes after "Cool Hand Fluke". Yes, some of the source are publicly generated sources, but also iTunes, and such sources that sell them by Volumes rather than seasons, state the same order. This article is the only one that states that it is before. Many shows do not air their shows in order of production numbers, they produce it and decide that it belongs at a different point in the story line. If you look at it by the volume lists: Cool Hand Fluke is Volume 5 episode 9 and Minimus is Missing is Volume 5 episode 10. Also, it first aired on August the 12th not the 15th. Hope this comes out okay as this is my first submission on any such website. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.75.5 (talk • contribs) 14:53, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

As pointed out numerous times above, the episode is coded as 223 Archived 2016-03-03 at the Wayback Machine. This suggests very strongly that it was produced during S2 and that Disney considers it a S2 episode. When it aired is of no relevance to its position on the page. How iTunes sells the series is irrelevant since, as you point out, they don't organize by seasons. And based on Volume 5, it appears they're merely organizing by air date. There's no dispute that "Minimus is Missing" aired after "Cool Hand Fluke" and we have indicated that through the inclusion of air dates. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Seasons are defined by the broadcasting network who broadcast the episodes, production codes are internal accounting slots defined by the creators of the episodes and show production sequence and production runs. The fact that http://www.disneyabcpress.com/disneyjunior/shows/sofia-the-first/episodes/ Archived 2016-03-03 at the Wayback Machine an outlet of the network shows the episode as season 2 is indicative that the network itself considers it a season 2 episode. This is pretty authoritative as to what season the episode belongs to. It looks like there was not a clean season break in this series and the end of season 2 overlaps with the start of season 3. We should go with what the network defines. Sometimes they will air an episode of a previous production sequence out of order in a later season. In this case, the network, who defines what a season is is showing an overlap. Geraldo Perez (talk) 20:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Have we suddenly agreed that "Minimus is Missing" is a season 3 episode? -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 18:17, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Anythingspossibleforapossible It's unclear what you mean. Care to elaborate? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 10:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

I see. You were referring to these edits, where an IP from Singapore moved the episode to S3. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 11:15, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought it'd be clear. But yes, that's what I was talking about. Chronologically, it does take place after "The Secret Library" from season 3. I don't know if a note should be made under one or both episode descriptions? -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 11:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Double sorry. I'm getting confused with "The Secret Library", where Minimus was also captured. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 11:54, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

It's been changed back to season 3. And while I could change this, I'm wondering if it should stay, because this problem occured on Ultimate Spider-man where air date order won out over production order. I didn't follow if anything else was decided, but this is what I saw on edit summaries. In any case, if it it returned to season 2, it leaves season 3 episode count number irregular (meaning it isn't changed accordingly). Is this intentional? -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 15:41, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Anythingspossibleforapossible - I've chosen to wait a few days before changing it back, in the case that it brings the IP editor a sense of satisfaction. That said, I don't see any consensus to leave it in S3 and we don't get to manufacture information. If the Disney site is clearly calling it a S2 episode (and I'm not even referring to the production code here--they have it in the Season 2 section) then that's what we should be observing. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 21:49, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Hello. I have reviewed this discussion, and the official website at http://www.disneyabcpress.com/disneyjunior/shows/sofia-the-first/episodes/ Archived 2016-03-03 at the Wayback Machine clearly lists the episode "Minimus is Missing" below the "Season 2 Episodes" category, not season three or any other. If there is another reliable source available which somehow supersedes or contradicts this claim then we can certainly discuss that, otherwise we ought to do the same. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 20:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

84.104.110.56 and 213.10.103.177 are changing the info regarding the upcoming season 3 episode, "The Secret Library: Olaf and the Tale of Miss Nettle", with Olaf from Frozen as the a guest star. Yes, Olaf, and not Judy Hopps from Zootopia, as he keeps on changing it to. The source says Olaf. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 18:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. This page is not protected, and you are having a content dispute. Please consider communicating with the editors on thier talk pages, or taking it to DRN --allthefoxes ^(Talk) 19:24, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, Allthefoxes, I thought this would be a better solution, because I can't exactly talk to a troll. But I guess I'll have to go through DSN, only if it happens again, though. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 22:20, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm curious | about this edit citing "Josh Gad" as the source. Yeah, I know who he is, however, he doesn't appear to be a cast member of this show, nor a producer, nor involved with this show. Second, how are we to verify that Josh Gad actually verified this as correct ? I didn't change this , just thought it was curious. KoshVorlon 16:49, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

KoshVorlon - I don't understand the explanation: "The colour of the pilot movie was changed"? Anythingspossibleforapossible can you please shed some light on this? Thank you, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:10, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

The colour had been changed around, without explanation. Also, the source of the Olaf episode, said that Josh Gad was the voice of the Olaf. I never said Josh Gad was the source, just that he was mentioned in the link provided. -- Anythingspossibleforapossible (talk) 01:06, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I noticed the brand-new opening credits started with episode 73 - so I assume that was the start of season 4. But according to this page, it's only episode 19 of Season 3. Is it possible that Season 2 is only 24 episodes long rather than 29, so that Season 1 ends at episode 24, Season 2 ends at episode 48, and Season 3 ends at Episode 72? When did the Series 3 slightly modified credits kick in - episode 49? Or episode 54? Nfitz (talk) 18:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Amazon says the third season will have 28 episodes ("Customers will receive 28 episodes in total by the end of the season!"). The problem is, it will probably end up being 29, because we list "Minimus as Missing" "Cool Hand Fluke" as part of season 2 3 (which, by the way, I still think should be listed under season 2, how Amazon lists it, as it's clear they are using seasons and not volumes there) – and saying it will have 29 episodes linking to a source which says 28 would probably be WP:SYNTH. – nyuszika7h (talk) 09:39, 27 August 2016 (UTC) edited 23:02, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

The episode "Camp Wilderwood" was broadcast earlier today in the UK. Can someone update the entry, please (I'm not sure how to add the note for a specific country, sorry).

^[1]86.182.22.132 (talk) 22:46, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't see anything at the link you've provided, and we would need some sort of stable reference anyway, so that it could be verified in the future. These sorts of episode listings tend to only be good for a week or two before they disappear. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:57, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

If you think that's weird here I just got to watch "Hexley Hall". I think ahead of their intended schedule. Sofia refers to Princess Elena being out of The Amulet of Avalor so it happens after Secret of Avalor. They probably intended to wait until after november 20 to release it and goofed. The summary I gave is proof that I watched it today or earlier.

It was put up OnDemand to view with the description for Camp Wilderwood butnwhen you watch it its actually Hexley Hall. I can make a video showing this tomorrow f anyone is doubtful. It has been available since October 28. I can see someone else acknowledged this in IMDB. Ranze (talk) 11:25, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

As a follow-up I am wondering about the listed date. I had been taking advantage of the free October to watch Teletoon and wasn't paying attention to DJR's OnDemand updates and can't remember the exact day it went up but I notice that https://archive.today/20161116025102/http://www.rogersondemand.com/OnDemand/Show/disney_sofia_the_first?lang=en says "EP 26 Camp Wilderwood Aired on 10/19/16". I don't consider this a contradiction to the October 28 debut date for the ACTUAL episode Camp Wilderwood (episode 24) but possibly the early Canadian debut date of Hexley Hall wrongly given ep 24's description/title. Ranze (talk) 02:58, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

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I removed the lengthy list of actors not appearing in the first season (four years ago) because it stretched the increasingly long page. If I had the time, I would remove the same from the individual episode summaries. What kid will care post-episode who wasn't in one??? If they watch/record/DVR it, they will know the cast/characters at the time. Is the purpose for listing such information to help the reader not want to watch the episode because the character wasn't in it??? — Wyliepedia 05:37, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

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