Talk:Mayflower

What's with the anachronistic flag in the Info Box? It was adopted following the first BRITISH Act of Union in 1707, nearly a century after the ENGLISH Pilgrims travelled to the New World. Britain and England are not synonyms. Prior to 1707, England had a different flag. 2A0A:EF40:387:5F01:FD85:6D1:7347:48F5 (talk) 23:47, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

In fact, the flag was designed in 1606 (see the Flag of Great Britain article), and yes - it was used on the Mayflower. StAnselm (talk) 00:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

I came to this article because I was interested in ''Mayflower'' as a ship, but was a bit confused by the layout, content and balance. I think the article needs some work, and I would be happy to take it on, over time, if no one objects. These are some of the things I would do:

Start the article with as much technical detail about the ship as possible; there is no reason not to include information from other similar and contemporary ships, and shipping, provided it is sourced

Reduce the emphasis on the Pilgrims, as there is a very good article at Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony) and many articles on other aspects of the earliest colonists

Include some information on Mayflower II under Legacy

Find sources to answer the citation needed tags or if absolutely necessary delete the information for now

Rewrite the lead to reflect the changes made

Happy to hear other editors' views. It might be possible to get this article to GA with a bit of work?

Tony Holkham (Talk) 18:44, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I came here to say this, and agree with this comment. I would think the ship history should have prominence as this is an article about the ship, not the voyage. I was here to find out about the early history of the ship and had to scroll past its later history to find its early history. Mikeymo1741 (talk) 15:06, 18 July 2025 (UTC)

I support this. The current article places disproportionate emphasis on the colonisation narrative, relative to the actual vessel. This is inconsistent with WP:TITLE, WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, WP:UNDUE, and WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. Coverage of people and events is already extensive elsewhere, notably: Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony), Plymouth Colony, Puritan migration to New England (1620–1640), List of Mayflower passengers.

I suggest a substantial refactor to foreground Mayflower as the primary subject, with passenger/colonisation material condensed to summary context and spun off where appropriate per WP:SPINOFF. This would allow fuller maritime and technical coverage while retaining necessary historical context.

Raising this here to seek consensus before making structural changes which could look something like this:

• Lead
  • Concise smmary of the ship: type, approximate tonnage, owners, principal voyages, fate, historical significance.
• Design and construction
  • Ship type (merchant vessel)
  • Build location and date (if known)
  • (Hull, rig, tonnage (with caveats/uncertainty)
• Ownership and voyages
  • Known owners and operators
  • Early voyages (pre-1620)
  • 1620 Atlantic crossing
    • Brief overview of passengers and purpose
    • Conditions aboard (space, provisioning)
    • Clear summary with links to main articles
• Later history and fate
  • Final years, decommissioning / dismantling
• Legacy and representations
  • Cultural and historical symbolism (brief)
  • Replicas and commemorations (e.g. later ships named Mayflower)

Cornellier (talk) 04:23, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

The flag shown next to "England" is NOT the flag of England - it's the flag of Great Britain from 1707 - 1801. ~2025-39884-22 (talk) 14:31, 10 December 2025 (UTC)

See Talk:Mayflower#Info_Box_flag above. Tony Holkham (Talk) 14:50, 10 December 2025 (UTC)

Under 'First winter', Rebecca Fraser is quoted by saying that 'Plymouth Colony was the first experiment in consensual government in Western history between individuals with one another, and not with a monarch'. Throughout (Western) history, there must have been countless small groups of people - often religious sects - that tried to move away from the monarchical Law of the Land. Maybe today we would call them 'sovereign citizens'. Fraser's statement is quite rich and debatable, especially considering the fact that the colonies members left the city of Leiden in, note well, the 'Republic' of the Seven United Provinces (the first modern republic in history. See: Wikipedia > Dutch Republic) that, at that time, was fighting a victorious war (1588 - 1648) of independence against Spanish monarchical rule! ~2025-40650-37 (talk) 19:06, 15 December 2025 (UTC)