Talk:Political dissidence in the Empire of Japan
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 | On 22 July 2020, it was proposed that this article be moved from Japanese dissidence during the early Shōwa period to Japanese dissidence in 20th century Imperial Japan. The result of the discussion was moved to Japanese dissidence in 20th-century Imperial Japan. |
External or Internal Links
@Greg723: is there a specific reason that most of the links are external? If it's a mistake, this page requires major copy editing. CarnivorousBunnytalk • contribs 01:28, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
- @CarnivorousBunny: Greg is likely a new editor who is learning how to improve Wikipedia. Perhaps someone can help with mentoring? --benlisquareT•C•E 01:56, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
- I have sent the user a message. CarnivorousBunnytalk • contribs 02:12, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Take out Uchiyama Kanzo
http://repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/21814/KATO-DISSERTATION-2013.pdf?sequence=1 showcases Uchiyama Kanzo showcasing his disdain for the military. But on Beyond Brushtalk: Sino-Japanese Literary Exchange in the Interwar Period By Christopher T. Keaveney Page 41 When confronted with anti-Japanese reactions to Japanese imperialism in China in the 1920s and 1930s, Uchiyama all too often tended to regard the events as a nuisance that upset the balance of life in Shanghai rather than to condemn the Japanese aggression which gave rise to those circumstances. This passiveness, and Considering Beyond Brushtalk is a published work, it had to be evaluated by experts before it got published. That's why Uchiyama should be taken out. But should be put on the "see also" section due to his connections to revolutionaries such as Lu Xun and Kaji Wataru(Greg723 (talk) 17:40, 5 February 2014 (UTC))
I will be taking out Uchiyama Kanzo for the reasons above
I will be taking out Uchiyama Kanzo from the list of Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan for the reasons above. If you are against my idea. Here is the portion I deleted so you can return it back to the list.
Kanzo Uchiyama and the Uchiyama Bookstore
Kanzo Uchiyama was a Japanese Christian pacifist, and the owner of the Uchiyama Bookstore in Shanghai, which became a haven for Chinese, and Japanese left wing intellectuals, such as Lu Xun, and Kaji Wataru, who was a political refugee from Japan, before the war.[1] Uchiyama felt that his vocation as cultural ambassador transcended political ideology. Wishing to bring both Chinese, and Japanese together, but it became harder through the 1930s, and 1940s and soon impossible.[2] His wife, Miki, died in 1945.[3] The bookstore was closed down the same year.[4] A statue of Uchiyama is in Shanghai, and him, and his wife Miki were both buried across Sun Yat-sen's wife, Soong Ching Ling, at Wanguo Cemetery in Shanghai.
References
- Beyond Brushtalk: Sino-Japanese Literary Exchange in the Interwar PeriodBy Christopher T. Keaveney Page 158
- Beyond Brushtalk: Sino-Japanese Literary Exchange in the Interwar Period By Christopher T. Keaveney Page 42-43
(Greg723 (talk) 19:55, 5 February 2014 (UTC))
Rearranging Resistance before the rise of militarism
Considering the attempted assassination of Hirohito by Daisuke Namba happened first, and the attempted assassination by Fumiko happened later. I put Daisuke first.(Greg723 (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2014 (UTC))
I replaced a source on Japanese resistance during WWIi
I took out "There were also Japanese political exiles, and disillusioned Japanese Imperial soldiers working with Chinese resistance during the Second Sino-Japanese War. [1]"
because http://www.hawaii.edu/uhwo/clear/HonoluluRecord/kojisblog/03_20_52.html, which concerns Kaji Wataru, and http://www.hawaii.edu/uhwo/clear/HonoluluRecord/kojisblog/04_17_52.html, which concerns Sanzo Nosaka, give more clearer sources, but if there is a problem, the old portion I deleted is here on the talk page. (Greg723 (talk) 01:18, 6 February 2014 (UTC))
I took out a portion
Concerning Kaji and his wife Yuki were also part of a diaspora of Japanese antiwar writers who lived in China, and were involved with Chinese literary circles.[2] Alot of them congregating at Kanzo Uchiyama's bookstore.[3] I took out Alot of them congregating at Kanzo Uchiyama's bookstore.[4] Because there from different sources, and I think i'm jumping to conclusion when I say all the anti-war writers of japanese descent visited the bookstore. If there is a problem, the portion i taken out is here.
References
- Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War IIBy John W. Dower Page 221
- Sino-Japanese Transculturation: Late Nineteenth Century to the End of the ... edited by Richard King, Cody Poulton, Katsuhiko Endo Page 114
- Beyond Brushtalk: Sino-Japanese Literary Exchange in the Interwar Period By Christopher T. Keaveney Page 43
- Beyond Brushtalk: Sino-Japanese Literary Exchange in the Interwar Period By Christopher T. Keaveney Page 43
(Greg723 (talk) 03:39, 6 February 2014 (UTC))
I'm think of putting Japanese expatriates in one section
I'll have to dissolve journalists who worked for WWII. I can seperate the journalist Ozaki Hotsumi in a Sorge Spy ring category, and also Shinozaki Mamoru in his own category. If there is any object let me know. (Greg723 (talk) 14:03, 9 February 2014 (UTC)).
Mamoru Shinozaki I deleted his portion, but put him on the see also section
Mamoru Shinozaki was a Japanese attache to the Dōmei Tsushin News Agency, and a spy for Imperial Japan. Horrified by the actions of the Japanese during the Japanese occupation of Singapore, he saved many from the Sook Ching massacre by illicitly issuing "good citizens passes" to Chinese, and Eurasian citizens. He was roped in to help the British Field Security Force and during the War Crimes Trials as interpreter and prosecution witness following the Japanese Surrender of Singapore due to the praise of the people he saved.[1][2]
References
- Singapore at Random By Audrey Perera My Dearest Enemy Page 59
- Shaun O'dwyer. "Tell the stories of those who refused". The Japan Times. Retrieved 2014-02-04.
(Greg723 (talk) 14:47, 9 February 2014 (UTC)).
deleted newspaper article
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/91412724 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg723 (talk • contribs) 10:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Relevance of "Resistance in 20th Century Japan" section
Is this section actually relevant in an article about resistance during World War II? It makes no mention of how events earlier in the century related to events occurring during the war. I suggest the entire section be snipped. --DAJF (talk) 13:57, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
- Perhaps this article could be renamed Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan in the 20th century and have its scope expanded accordingly. I feel that the subject matter is artificially hamstrung if it can't discuss pre-war events and developments in detail. Either that, or split off part of the current article into a Pre-war Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan article and have the WW II specific material refer to that article as needed. — Myasuda (talk) 15:01, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Changing the name of Japanese resistance groups to Japanese defectors
In order to focus on the defectors, such as spies, and soldiers, and there reasons for joining. Could be a better highlight, and considering I have the the stories of the defectors already on the section. Minoru Wada's story also could be added.(Greg723 (talk) 13:09, 17 February 2014 (UTC)).
Image of Hirohitio Circa 1919 I deleted
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg723 (talk • contribs) 12:00, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
Help in deleting any bias from the article article
Proposal to Change Article name to "Japanese Resistance during the Shōwa period"
Considering that the ultranationalists resistance was still pro-Empire of Japan, and just because some resisters opposed the government doesn't mean they opposed the Empire of Japan. The Showa Period lasted from December 25, 1926, through January 7, 1989 so the article will still cover resistance in the pre-war era. It can cover from Hirohito's reign, to him denying his title as a god in his Humanity Declaration.(Greg723 (talk) 01:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)).
The Article also states that "This section contains information of unclear or questionable importance or relevance to the article's subject matter. Please help improve this article by clarifying or removing superfluous information. (February 2014)" Changing the article name could fix that. (Greg723 (talk) 01:41, 20 May 2014 (UTC)).
If the "Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan during the Shōwa period" Might as well change the title to "Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan during the Shōwa period."(Greg723 (talk) 05:12, 20 May 2014 (UTC)).
Or "Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan during World War II" Not everyone knows what the Showa Period was.(Greg723 (talk) 05:15, 20 May 2014 (UTC)).
- The article does not cover only the period of World War II, and it was you yourself that (rightly) moved it from the earlier title of "in World War II". Please a start a formal move request at Wikipedia:Requested moves, if you wish to propose any further moves in the near future. --DAJF (talk) 05:21, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
- Resistance against what/who? The title is incomplete. The resistance was against the governing militarist faction so "Anti-militarist resistance in Japan during the Showa period" is succinct and complete. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:03, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Just because of the arrest of Major Tsunoda Tomoshige, doesn't mean Tsunoda was anti-militarist. (Greg723 (talk) 02:34, 21 May 2014 (UTC)).
if Ultrarightist resistance, which is militarist, is kept, the article names is justified. (Greg723 (talk) 06:48, 21 May 2014 (UTC)).
Is the Ultranationalist resistance appropriate for this article?
Is the Ultranationalist resistance appropriate for this article?
Ultranationalist resistance seems to parallel to Kyūjō Incident, and the Nazi Werwolf resistance. Not the German Resistance to Nazism (Greg723 (talk) 02:30, 21 May 2014 (UTC)).
I deleted ultranationalist resistance. Is there a justifiable reason for it "ultranationalist resistance" to return?(Greg723 (talk) 12:37, 22 May 2014 (UTC)).
Proposal to Change "Resistance to Japanese nationalism in modern-day Japan" to "Resistance to Japanese nationalism in the Modern Showa Era
Since the article focuses on the the Showa Era. Yasuhiro's visit to Yasukuni, which can be discussed as revitalizing of Japanese nationalism , and Saburo's lawsuits all happened during the Showa Era. Can also keep the Japanese leftists attitudes towards Japanese war crimes. Probably going to have to delete
"The rise of Japanese nationalism has been a topic in modern society.[1] Japan has been accused of denying Japanese war crimes.[2] The conservative Liberal Democratic Party is the dominant political party in Japan.[3]" Since it occurs predominantly after the Showa Era.(Greg723 (talk) 15:28, 21 May 2014 (UTC)).
If it would be deleted, the intro would be "During the late Showa period, Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone revitalized Japanese nationalism. [4], In 1985, Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone also visited the shrine as a public figure on Aug. 15. on Aug. 15, 1985, despite the fact that 14 Class-A war criminals were enshrined at Yasukuni in 1978. China and South Korea criticized the visit for the first time, accusing Japan of justifying its past militarism. [5]"
References
- "BBC News - Is nationalism on the rise in Japan?". Bbc.com. 2012-11-13. Retrieved 2014-05-21.
- Seidel, Jamie (2014-02-10). "Japan's rising, worrisome rhetoric denying its World War II crimes has China and the West worried about its new ultranationalism". News.com.au. Retrieved 2014-05-21.
- "Abe could learn from Nakasone-INSIDE Korea JoongAng Daily". Koreajoongangdaily.joins.com. 2014-02-21. Retrieved 2014-05-21.
- "FACT FILE: Yasukuni Shrine - AJW by The Asahi Shimbun". Ajw.asahi.com. Retrieved 2014-05-21.
(Greg723 (talk) 16:06, 21 May 2014 (UTC)).
proposal to shorten Sorge ring section with a less descriptive link
Here is the link. For seven years, the pair, along with a small circle of underground Japanese Communist activists, had collected information from within the higher government circles, radioing it directly back to the Soviet Union.[1] The pair means Sorge, and Hotsumi. (Greg723 (talk) 14:12, 23 May 2014 (UTC)).
Tomo, and Yotoku were communists. Not sure about the secretary, Gives a more broader description about the entire resistance. Shu Yabe. Could still keep Shu Yabe. (Greg723 (talk) 14:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC)).
Or keep Yotoku, and Tomo, and her husband, but will probably have to take Shu Yabe because of the above reason(Greg723 (talk) 14:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC)).
Shortening it would damage the information in the article.(Greg723 (talk) 04:08, 5 June 2014 (UTC)).
Friendship Dolls
In the 1920s, Japan and America exchanged Friendship Dolls. As Japan moved into militarism, the peaceful sentiment of these dolls faded, and many of the dolls in Japan were ordered to be destroyed. A few of the owners of these dolls resisted the order, by hiding the dolls, in the hope that circumstances would eventually improve.
This was documented in a cable TV documentary. Tabletop (talk) 13:42, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
Do you have a link to this documentary? Or a name? (Greg723 (talk) 04:07, 5 June 2014 (UTC)).
- It was on a Foxtel cable TV channel, perhaps
- National Geographic Channel
- Discovery Channel
- History Channel
- BBC Knowledge
- A&E
- Nat Geo Wild but then again, probably not this one. Tabletop (talk) 08:53, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- It was on a Foxtel cable TV channel, perhaps
Help in deleting any paraphrasing and duplication of any text from refereces/links in the article
Need more sources to prove the prominence of leftists in the resistance.
Saved Open Letter sent to Emperor Meiji
In 1907, an open letter addressed to "Mutsuhito, Emperor of Japan from Anarchist-Terrorists" was posted at the Consulate General of Japan in San Francisco. Mutsuhito was the personal name of Emperor Meiji. The open letter denied the Emperor's divinity, and concluded with the words "Hey you, miserable Mutsuhito. Bombs are all around you, about to explode. Farewell to you." The incident changed the attitude towards leftist movements.[2]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg723 (talk • contribs) 20:11, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Saved Resistance before the Showa period
Resistance was active in 20th Century Japan before the reign of Emperor Hirohito. In 1900, the government passed the Public Peace Police Law, which undermined labor activism.[3] In 1907, an open letter addressed to "Mutsuhito, Emperor of Japan from Anarchist-Terrorists" was posted at the Consulate General of Japan in San Francisco. Mutsuhito was the personal name of Hirohito's grandfather Emperor Meiji. The letter denied the Emperor's divinity, and concluded "Hey you, miserable Mutsuhito. Bombs are all around you, about to explode. Farewell to you." The incident changed the attitude towards leftist movements, leading to the government to put socialists, anarchists, and communists under surveillance.
The consul general in San Francisco reported that the anarchist movement began under the influence of Shūsui Kōtoku in San Francisco. Kotoku arrived in America in November 1905. He had been imprisoned in Japan for five months for violating press ordinances in articles written for Heimin Shimbun (Commoners' Newspaper),[4] During his time in America, he came under the influence of anarchists.[5] In 1911, Kotoku was executed along with 11 others for their involvement with the High Treason Incident, a conspiracy to assassinate Emperor Meiji. In response to the High Treason Incident, the Tokubetsu Kōtō Keisatsu (Special Higher Police) was established.[6]
References
- The Imperial Screen: Japanese Film Culture in the Fifteen Years' War, 1931-1945 By Peter B. High Page 442
- The Japanese Conspiracy: The Oahu Sugar Strike of 1920 By Masayo Umezawa Duus Page 22-23
- Crisis and Compensation: Public Policy and Political Stability in Japan ... By Kent E. Calder Page 147
- The Japanese Conspiracy: The Oahu Sugar Strike of 1920 By Masayo Umezawa Duus Page 22-23
- Pacifism in Japan: The Christian and Socialist Tradition By Edited by Nobuya Bamba and John F. Howes Page 20
- A History of Japan: From Stone Age to Superpower By Kenneth Henshall Page 98
(Greg723 (talk) 15:16, 14 July 2014 (UTC)).
Saved Japanese Communist Party USA members
Issei (Japanese immigrant) communists opposed the Japanese state. During the Depression era, there were nearly 200 Japanese-American members of the Communist Party USA, which had become a refuge for foreign exiles. One of the first issei communists to be deported from America was Kenmotsu Sadaichi. He avoided deportation to as he puts it "Japan, the fascist country" as he secured asylum in the Soviet Union.[1] Seventeen issei communists were deported from the U.S between 1931 and 1934.[2] The Committee for the Protection of the Foreign Born aided in securing the right of a number of Japanese Communist deportees to be sent to the Soviet Union, rather than back to Japan, where they would have faced persecution.[3] Those who found asylum in the Soviet Union also risked being executed by Joseph Stalin for being "infiltrators".[4] During WWII, issei, kibei, and nisei communists tolerated the internment of Japanese-Americans for the sake of the war against the "German-Italy-Japan fascist Axis powers".[5] At the same time the CPUSA expelled all members of Japanese ancestry from the party following the outbreak of World War II. [6]
References
- Race Struggles edited by Theodore Koditschek, Sundiata Keita Cha-Jua, Helen A. Neville Page 211-226
- Before Internment: Essays in Prewar Japanese American History By Yuji Ichioka Page 98
- Street Meeting: Multiethnic Neighborhoods in Early Twentieth-Century Los Angeles By Mark Wild Page 191
- The Shifting Grounds of Race: Black and Japanese Americans in the Making of ...By Scott Kurashige Page 83-96
- Growing Up Nisei: Race, Generation, and Culture Among Japanese Americans of ...By David Yoo Page 141
- Japanese American History: An A-to-Z Reference from 1868 to the Present edited by Brian Niiya, Japanese American National Museum (Los Angeles, Calif.) Page 362
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg723 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Saved Japanese militarism
The May 15 Incident of 1932 was a failed coup led by nationalist dissidents in the Japanese military, and citizenry. The coup resulted in the death of Prime Minister Inukai Tsuyoshi, who had demanded budget cuts to the military. The conspirators proclaimed their loyalty to the emperor. They received widespread acclaim in Japan, and were given light sentences. The incident was the beginning of government by assassination in Japan.[1]
The February 26 Incident of 1936 was another failed nationalist coup. Following the coup's failure, the role of the mainstream military leadership in the government increased as civilian officials depended more on the army to maintain stability. Despite Hirohito labeling the rebels as traitors,[2] they saw themselves as loyal to the Emperor. The rebels had sought to launch a Shōwa Restoration.[3]
References
- Rising Sun, Falling Skies: The Disastrous Java Sea Campaign of World War II By Jeffrey Cox Page 19
- Modern Japan: An Encyclopedia of History, Culture, and Nationalism edited by H Orth Hirt Professor of History Emeritus James L Huffman, James L. Huffman Page 55
- Japan at War: An Encyclopedia, edited by Louis G. Perez Page 85
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Greg723 (talk • contribs) 22:09, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Requested move 02 July 2014
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) --Mdann52talk to me! 09:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Japanese resistance during the Shōwa period → Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa periodJapanese dissidence during the Shōwa period – The current title does not indicate what was resisted. The proposed title indicates that the article is about Japanese dissidents. Relisted Calidum Talk To Me 02:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC) Srnec (talk) 01:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Survey
- Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with
*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
- Oppose: "Resistance" is the most common term used to describe anti-governmental (whether opposing legitimate or occupation government) actions during WWII, particularly in Axis and Axis occupied countries. The WWII navbox template (Template:World War II) used in this article uses the term "resistance". So do most articles on national resistance movements linked in that template, including the main article Resistance during World War II. Finnusertop (talk) 00:22, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- So? This article isn't about World War II. Notice that our article on the German case is titled German Resistance to Nazism. How does an uninformed reader know that the Japanese resistance referred to in the title is towards the Japanese government and not to, say, invaders or conquerors? It is weird to assume that "resistance" implies resistance to internal and legal threats rather than external ones. Srnec (talk) 00:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
In that case, the article should be renamed Japanese resistance to the Shōwa government.(Greg723 (talk) 10:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC)).
Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1926-1945) would be better. It's more detailed. The dates correspond with the start of Emperor Hirohito's (Emperor Showa) reign, to his reign at the end of WWII.(Greg723 (talk) 12:45, 14 July 2014 (UTC)).
Not everyone knows what the Shōwa period is or means, or that the Showa Emperor was another name for Emperor Hirohito.(Greg723 (talk) 12:49, 14 July 2014 (UTC)).
New title Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1926–1945) indicates who the Japanese rebels were resisting. (Greg723 (talk) 14:18, 14 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Hm,... "Japanese resistance to Japan" strikes one as redundantly confusing, or confusingly redundant. walk victor falk talk 21:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Support Clearly a superior title from many aspects. It is simultaneously more wp:precise while permitting a broader scope. Resistance is a form of opposition, but not all opposition is resistance. "Dissidence" describes best the topic of this article. Also, parenthetical disambiguators should be avoided per wp:naturaldis. Finally, the format "19XX-19YY" leaves the door open to arbitrariness and potential disputes, because they are different equally (in)valid
candi-datescanditate dates. Case in point: at the time of this writing, it is "1937". walk victor falk talk 21:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1937–1945) is now the article of the wiki article. It covers the wartime rule of Emperor Hirohito. The date in the article marks the date of Japan's invasion of China on 1937. The title of the article can be compared to the title of the article of German Resistance to Nazism(Greg723 (talk) 01:51, 15 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Why does the scope have to be restricted to opposition after the start of the Second Sino-Chinese War (and also the Japan(ese) redundancy is contrary to WP:CONCISE and might be confusing as I pointed out above)? That's just as arbitrary and unhelpful to readers as German Resistance to Nazism (1939-1945). walk victor falk talk 17:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
The Second Sino-Japanese war is considered by some, such as the Japanese, and Chinese, to be the beginning of World War II. The Second Sino-Japanese war would merge with WWII. Since the article is about resistance during WWII, the new title seems appropriate. (Greg723 (talk) 18:41, 15 July 2014 (UTC)).
The article is also a part of the WWII template. Another reason why the article title is appropriate.(Greg723 (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2014 (UTC)).
Japanese resisting the Empire of Japan does not mean the resisters were resisting the Japanese people. Japanese who resisted the Empire of Japan were resisting the Empire, its government, police, laws, state shinto, royal family, etc. (Greg723 (talk) 18:57, 15 July 2014 (UTC)).
The article name has been changed to Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1921–1945). 1921 was when Hirohito ascended to the title of Prince regent, which gave him power over the monarchy without being the monarch. Its an important date because it was when he was targeted for assassination by rebels. The peace preservation law, which limited freedom of speech in japan was passed. Anarchist leader Osugi was murdered during hirohito's regency. Resistance was active before he ruled as emperor. The title change is justified. I apologize for not having it discussed thru the talk page. If their are any problems, get an administrator to change the title back article's original title Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1937-1945) (Greg723 (talk) 12:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
To Victor Falk Considering the article title's vagueness. would the new title "Japanese resistance to Hirohito" be more fitting. Japanese dissidents had no problem with violating the peace preservation law, which forbade any opposition to the kokutai (Kyūjitai: 國體, Shinjitai: 国体, literally "national body/structure") translatable as "system of government", "sovereignty", "national identity; national essence; national character", "national polity; body politic; national entity; basis for the Emperor's sovereignty; Japanese constitution". The article also encompasses his reign as Regent in 1921, to the end of world war ii in 1945.(Greg723 (talk) 12:40, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
The intro of the article if it becomes "Japanese resistance to Hirohito" would mention that the article is about Japanese who resisted Hirohito's rule. Since rebelling against the Peace preservation law is rebelling against the Kokutai. Or the intro can mention it's about Japanese resistance to the government of Hirohito.(Greg723 (talk) 12:47, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
Or "Japanese Resistance" can be the new article name. It would be like the French Resistance article's title. The intro of the article would suffice to avoid any vagueness. (Greg723 (talk) 12:44, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Support originally proposed move to Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa period. The article has been unilaterally moved numerous times by one editor, turning the whole discussion into a farce, but the current title still does not address the original concerns that the title does not indicate what the resistance was against. --DAJF (talk) 23:26, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Discussion
- Any additional comments:
The article appears to have been moved unilaterally to "Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1937–1945)", but since large portions of the text still dwell on the pre-1937 and post-1945 periods, isn't the period (1937-1945) specified unnecessarily narrow? --DAJF (talk) 04:47, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
That's why the new title is "Japanese resistance to the Empire of Japan (1921–1945)", which encompasses Hirohito's reign as regent, to the end of wwii. Some people on the talk page are saying the article title is vague. The title could renamed Japanese resistance to Hirohito Japanese dissidents had no problem with violating the peace preservation law, which forbade any opposition to the kokutai (Kyūjitai: 國體, Shinjitai: 国体, literally "national body/structure") translatable as "system of government", "sovereignty", "national identity; national essence; national character", "national polity; body politic; national entity; basis for the Emperor's sovereignty; Japanese constitution". The article encompasses his reign as Regent in 1921, to the end of world war ii in 1945. (Greg723 (talk) 13:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
Also, I apologize for changing the title without a vote. I'm still trying to get a response for my new proposed title Japanese resistance to Hirohito .(Greg723 (talk) 13:19, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
If "Japanese resistance to Hirohito is kept, then the intro will say resistance to the Emperor would be classified as resistance to the Monarchy, the Army, and Navy, which Article 11 of the Meiji Constitution states the Emperor has Emperor has the supreme command of, or the Ise grand shrine, which honors Ameratsu, the sun goddess that the Emperor is believed to be descended from. Or collaboration with the enemy government, such as their intelligence agencies, armies, which target the Japaense military, could be considered resistance. Such as joining the Office of strategic services. (Greg723 (talk) 16:30, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
Resistance to Hirohito can be classified as just disrespect to Ameratsu. (Greg723 (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
Intro for proposed article name. Japanese resistance to Hirohito was resistance by Japanese citizens to Hirohito, which encompasses his ascension to Prince regent on November 29, 1921 to the Surrender of the Empire of Japan to the Allies on September 2, 1945. Resistance to Hirohito applies to actions that oppose, or endanger the Monarchy, the Army, or Navy, which under Article 11 of the Meiji Constitution states that the Emperor acts as Supreme commander of, or showing a lack of reverance to the Sun Goddess Ameratsu, who is tied to the Emperor myth. Collaborating with enemy nations during wartime can also be considered resistance as such actions endangers the Japanese military. (Greg723 (talk) 16:59, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
Change title to "Treason in the Empire of Japan (1921-1945). from The Real History of World War II: A New Look at the Past By Alan Axelrod Page 138 explains that the Emperor had extensive executive, legislative, and military power, but his authority was far from absolute. Their could have been instances in Japan where one would commit treason without directly, or indirectly resisting Hirohito. Much of the resistance would have been persecuted by Laws passed by the Diet. Such as the peace preservation law. The tokko thought police was controlled by the home ministry. The title should be changed to avoid confusion.(Greg723 (talk) 18:19, 17 July 2014 (UTC)).
the article name has been changed to Japanese resistance (1921-1945) not all resistance was directly aimed at hirohito. their was resistance against militarism, or the government.(Greg723 (talk) 21:39, 17 July 2014 (UTC)).
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Deleting copy and pasted text in talk page
These were texts that are taking to much space in the talk page. Their are also unnecessary as stated by wiki administrators(Greg723 (talk) 21:02, 16 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Please stop pasting/creating new sections in the middle of the talk page. New talk goes at the bottom of the talk page. Please remember to sign your posts, as many of your insertions lack dating, which will break archivebots. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:14, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Requested move 18 July 2014
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: not moved, nomination withdrawn. Jenks24 (talk) 10:58, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa period → Japanese resistance to the Imperial Japanese government – The new article is more specific. The resistance in Japan went against the law's of the government. Greg723 (talk) 14:55, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
The Religious Organizations Law (Shukyo dantai ho), and the Peace Preservation Law were both passed by the government, which would limit freedoms in the Empire. There were people who violated those laws in Empire of Japan. (Greg723 (talk) 16:22, 18 July 2014 (UTC)).
The article title could also be Anti-militarist Japanese resistance during World War II. The pre-war discussions on Government repression is in the "Background". It could refer to resistance to the militarist government of Japan. (Greg723 (talk) 19:55, 18 July 2014 (UTC)).
- According to Wiktionary, a dissident is "a person who formally opposes the current political structure, opposes the political group in power, opposes the policies of the political group in power, or opposes current laws." Srnec (talk) 22:49, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose: In that case, their is no need to change the article title if that is what dissidence means. There are just some users who feel the title is less specific. If that is what dissidence means, I oppose the article title change.(Greg723 (talk) 16:48, 21 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Oppose. The article was moved following a discussion less than a week ago, and needs more stability. --DAJF (talk) 23:26, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
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Requested move (25 July 2014): Change article name to "Japanese dissidence during 20th Century Imperial Japan
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Request withdrawn by nominator. --DAJF (talk) 00:20, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
The article has now strayed away from Japanese dissidence during the Showa period. (Greg723 (talk) 23:57, 25 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Oppose. If any content strays from the main article topic, it should be removed, rather than proposing article moves every few days. --DAJF (talk) 01:30, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
In that case, what if we put the parts that stray away from the topic in a "Background section" The events are still important.(Greg723 (talk) 03:01, 26 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Support Still, If a change is made, it is unlikely that the new name will be changed back to "Japanese dissidence during the Showa Period" The new name would not be changed after few days either. There wouldn't be a point to make another change. A article name such like Japanese dissidence during 20th Century Imperial Japan would be appropriate enough when Taisho and Meiji dissidence had been added in the article. Meiji, and Taisho dissidence are more than just part of the background. There a detailed (For wiki standards) history(Greg723 (talk) 04:45, 26 July 2014 (UTC)).
- Oppose Article name change no longer needed.(Greg723 (talk) 20:09, 26 July 2014 (UTC)).
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Information needed on mahito akashi and junzo akashi
Mahito akashi was the father of Junzo Akashi. Junzo was a member of the todaisha (Watch Tower Society). They were both religious dissidents. Mahito resisted the draft. These dissidents should be in the article, but their should be more information to back up their stories.
References should be provided for information.(Greg723 (talk) 01:54, 25 August 2014 (UTC)).
page. 48 of Tsurumi, Shunsuke (2010). An Intellectual History of Wartime Japan: 1931-1945. Taylor & Francis. mentions mahito akashi, and junzo akashi, and Watchtower (Greg723 (talk) 10:57, 31 August 2014 (UTC))
Title is still not specific enough. Article title should be changed
The article focuses on Japanese dissidents that are non-militarists and non-ultranationalists. The May 15 Incident and the February 26 Incident are both ultranationalist coups. Dissidents who are mentioned in the article, such as Nosaka Sanzo, are the focus of the article. There should be a title change that is more specific to the article's focus. (Greg723 (talk) 15:25, 27 August 2014 (UTC)).
Requested move (August 2014)
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The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. DAJF (talk) 01:19, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
(non-admin closure)
{{requested move/dated|Anti-militarist dissidence during the Shōwa period}}
Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa period → Anti-militarist dissidence during the Shōwa period – The dissidents in the article, such as Wataru Kaji, and Taro Yashima were resisting the militarist government of Imperial Japan. By the 1930s, Imperial Japan was militarist. The dissidents in the article were resisting the militarist government of Imperial Japan during World War II, and the Second Sino-Japanese war, two wars that broke out during the showa period. Greg723 (talk) 15:44, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Withdrawn by nominator. A change of the name was not needed. Article Name is clear enough. It clarifies the article's subject.(Greg723 (talk) 18:43, 1 September 2014 (UTC)).
- Oppose. Sounds like an attempt to fix something that is not broken. Also, I would have thought it is pretty important to mention in the title that this is Japanese dissidence. No obvious reason for a page move. --DAJF (talk) 06:54, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
- Strong oppose This is about Japanese dissidence, not some other dissidence of non-Japanese in the Empire. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 07:16, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
- Oppose if the title of the article is clear enough for readers, no need to change it.(Greg723 (talk) 13:01, 28 August 2014 (UTC)).
- Why oppose your own nomination? You can just withdraw it. Timmyshin (talk) 14:43, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Information on Political Prisoners in Japan
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/95611325 link had news article on political prisoners in Imperial Japan. This is the name of the article 17 Oct 1945 CONTROL OF JAPAN/ Political Prisoners/ ENFORCING ORDER FOR RELEASE. name of newspaper Kalgoorlie Miner (WA : 1895 - 1950) Wednesday 17 October 1945
From his source World War II in the Pacific: An Encyclopedia edited by Stanley Sandler Page 406, it says 74,000 people were arrested for violating the Peace Preservation Act (Or law. Only about 5,000 were actually prosecuted. By the end of the war, fewer than 2,500 political prisoners remained behind bars.(Greg723 (talk) 23:32, 1 July 2014 (UTC)).
Page 190 of Race and Migration in Imperial JapanBy Michael Weiner claims 3,000 political prisoners were held in prisons.(Greg723 (talk) 15:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)).
Page 19 of Modern Japanese Thought edited by Bob T. Wakabayashi ,Page 200 of An Instance of Treason: Ozaki Hotsumi and the Sorge Spy RingBy Chalmers A. Johnson, http://www.ndl.go.jp/constitution/e/etc/glossary.html Glossary / Birth of the Constitution of Japan claims that 3000 political prisoners were released. (Greg723 (talk) 15:30, 3 September 2014 (UTC)).
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19451007&id=_1IbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xkwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3045,4677 The Pittsburgh Press article (article name contains racial slurs) "Japs to Free 3000 Political Prisoners" mentions release of communists. (Greg723 (talk) 00:39, 2 September 2014 (UTC)).
Page 239 to 240 of Allied Occupation of Japan By Eiji Takemae, Page 94-95 of Pacific Citizens: Larry and Guyo Tajiri and Japanese American Journalism in ... edited by Greg Robinson, and http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19451007&id=_1IbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xkwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3045,4677 The Pittsburgh Press article (article name contains racial slurs) "Japs to Free 3000 Political Prisoners",Page 50 of Winners in Peace: MacArthur, Yoshida, and Postwar JapanBy Richard B. Finn mentions Fuchu Prison, where it seems Fuchu had held political prisoners. Page 28 of Revolution and Subjectivity in Postwar Japan By J. Victor Koschmann, and http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19451007&id=_1IbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xkwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3045,4677 The Pittsburgh Press article (article name contains racial slurs) "Japs to Free 3000 Political Prisoners" article says Fuchu housed communist leader Tokuda Kyuichi.(Greg723 (talk) 18:54, 3 September 2014 (UTC)).
Page 94 of Pacific Citizens: Larry and Guyo Tajiri and Japanese American Journalism in ...edited by Greg Robinson Page 239 of Allied Occupation of Japan By Eiji Takemae and Page 19 of Modern Japanese Thought edited by Bob T. Wakabayashi says Koreans were also amongst Japan's political prisoners. (Greg723 (talk) 19:58, 3 September 2014 (UTC)).
http://www.jpri.org/publications/workingpapers/wp67.html JPRI Working Paper No. 67: May 2000 The Japanese Communist Party and Its Transformations by Peter Berton mentions political prisoners
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1665&dat=19761220&id=5u0eAAAAIBAJ&sjid=hiQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6634,6124011 Japanese Reds Turn Glum In Political Defeat by BARRY SHLACHTER Associated Press Writer mentions Kenji Miyamoto was one of 3000 political prisoners released after the war.(Greg723 (talk) 23:24, 4 September 2014 (UTC)).
Information needed on E. Herbert Norman and Japan's political prisoners.(Greg723 (talk) 23:42, 4 September 2014 (UTC)).
General Douglas Macarthur released political prisoners. From reference http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/macarthur/filmmore/transcript/transcript3.html The Film & MoreEnhanced TranscriptPart Two: The Politics of War(Greg723 (talk) 17:55, 5 September 2014 (UTC)).
Page 296 of Rising from the Flames: The Rebirth of Theater in Occupied Japan, 1945-1952 edited by Samuel L. Leiter Says more than 2,400 political prisoners were released. (Greg723 (talk) 15:26, 4 October 2014 (UTC)).
Information needed on Gakusei Shakai Kagaku Rengokai (Student Social Science Federation) or Gakuren.
The Gakusei Shakai Kagaku Rengokai (Student Social Science Federation) or Gakuren was a Student organization in Imperial Japan. Got information from Modern Japan: An Encyclopedia of History, Culture, and Nationalism edited by H Orth Hirt Professor of History Emeritus James L Huffman, James L. Huffman Page 67 (Greg723 (talk) 18:54, 2 September 2014 (UTC)).
Information needed on monuments of Japanese dissidents
Photos of monuments of dissidents needed. Such as gravestones, memorial monuments, etc. Also Photos of monuments that honor the Japanese resistance are needed. For example, a Japanese equivalent of the Memorial to the German Resistance. (Greg723 (talk) 22:40, 7 September 2014 (UTC)).
Added photos
. (Greg723 (talk) 23:03, 7 September 2014 (UTC)).
This article is one of the top ten most edited articles on Wikipedia for 2014
According to this Wikimedia post, this page is one of the most edited of the year---in fact, with 8,212 edits, it's number three, ranking above 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict and Shooting of Michael Brown, for instance. All of the rest of the entries (with a similar exception: List of works by Eugène Guillaume) are articles on current events, which naturally are always the most heavily edited articles on Wikipedia. What amazes me most is that this accolade is the result of the world of one editor, Greg723, who it seems has since creating the article on January 14 (is there more perfect timing?) has over the past year run a human version of the hamster treadmill, writing and rewriting the article in series of small edits, cycling it back and forth between 9 and 13k in size. I'm not sure whether or not that was the intention all along, Greg723, or whether you're just crazy...a New Year to all, ResMar 01:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
Dissidence or dissidents?
In the latest move the edit summary indicates that the primary objective was to add "Imperial" into the title, however another change was done without comment or explanation. The article is not simply about dissidents (people), much of the content is about the dissident activities and organizations involved in dissidence (action). Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 21:08, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
- Imperial Japanese dissidents in the Shōwa period is an appropriate title due to what it discusses. The article is similar to articles such as Soviet dissidents, and the Cuban dissident movement. All three of these articles focus on dissidents, as well as dissident activities. (Greg723 (talk) 10:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC)).
- That's just an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument, so not convincing at all. If this page was basically just a list of dissidents (people) I would agree, but it actually discusses the activities, organizations and context in significant detail, hence my preference for "dissidence" - which (minus the "imperial") was the title for a fairly long time. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:42, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
- I also object to the recent page move. A casual reader could be left wondering whether the word "Imperial" refers to Japan or to the dissidents. If it is necessary to refer to "Imperial Japan", a better name might be "Dissidents of Imperial Japan in the Shōwa period". — Myasuda (talk) 14:15, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
- That's just an WP:OTHERSTUFF argument, so not convincing at all. If this page was basically just a list of dissidents (people) I would agree, but it actually discusses the activities, organizations and context in significant detail, hence my preference for "dissidence" - which (minus the "imperial") was the title for a fairly long time. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:42, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
- I have boldly reverted the undiscussed move, as it did not appear at all well thought-out. Any future moves should be formally requested at Wikipedia:Requested moves to allow discussion and gain consensus. --DAJF (talk) 14:46, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
We should stick to the older article name "Japanese dissidence during the Showa Period". It already has been an established article name for a fairly long time, and also because it is well thought-out than "Imperial Japanese dissidents in the Showa Period". However, the intro should at least be clear that the article focuses on figures, and events before the dissolution of the Empire of Japan following the end of WWII because the Showa period consists of the post-war period as well. That has always been the topic of the article since its inception. That is really the only issue I have with the article.(Greg723 (talk) 14:54, 21 January 2015 (UTC)).
Merging Japanese Resistance to the Imperial House of Japan into Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa period
Merging Japanese Resistance to the Imperial House of Japan into Japanese dissidence during the Shōwa period shouldn't happen because Japanese Resistance to the Imperial House of Japan covers Japanese resistance to the Imperial House of Japan throughout its history. The Imperial House of Japan was founded before the Showa Period.(Greg723 (talk) 22:56, 3 June 2015 (UTC)).
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Edit-a-thon ongoing
A Japanese History course at the University of Oklahoma is currently editing this page. We have reverted the article to what we identified as the most thorough and thematically best organized version of the page. The history of this article is interesting and complex, but there is good reason to think that a version from 2014 is the best place to start. We will revise the text, clean the citations, and try to ensure best Wikipedia practices between now (1-18-18) and next Tuesday (1-23-18).
I worry that the site will be reverted because of the large numbers of edits and total change to the site, but hope that the community will give us some slack during the edit-a-thon.
Suggest to delete The Japanese Schindler section
I suggest to delete "The Japanese Schindler" section.
- The reputation of Mamoru Shinozaki as The Japanese Schindler is mainly stand on his autobiography which was repeatedly criticized by historians and Singapore residents as WP:QUESTIONED. The remark that "he voluntary saved many Chinese people" is also inconsistent with Shinozaki's testimony on war crimes trial that "I saved many Chinese people following the direction of Japanese commander Kawamura" which recorded by the war crimes court in 1947.
- 2nd paragraph of the section refers to website which refers to wikipedia. Which is incredible resource.--UikiHedeo (talk) 17:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC) typo--UikiHedeo (talk) 17:19, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
"Resistance before World War II"
This part of the article seems to deal entirely with incidents and events before 1926. Since this article's title is explicitly about the Showa period (which started in 1926), shouldn't all of that be removed or the scope of the article increased? hbdragon88 (talk) 09:27, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
Requested move 22 July 2020
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to title with hyphen, per the discussion. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)
Japanese dissidence during the early Shōwa period → Japanese dissidence in 20th century Imperial Japan – The new title was proposed before, but seems that it was rejected due to a lack of pre-Showa content. Now, however, a significant portion of the article is about Taisho and even Meiji-era dissidence - even so far that (as of this post) Heimin-sha, a Meiji socialist organisation, redirects here. Therefore, I would argue that it is more accurate and precise to title it with reference to the broader 20th century era. Sparkledriver (talk) 21:32, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Historical period articles are well titled with date references, especially where named references are poorly recognized or inaccurate. Shōwa period is poorly recognized, evidenced by it being a redirect to Shōwa (1926–1989), which itself I think is poor with Shōwa being an ambiguous reference to Emperor Hirohito. Shōwa period is also inaccurate because content pre-dates 1926. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:39, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
- Support. But I think it needs a hyphen: Japanese dissidence in 20th-century Imperial Japan. –Coreydragon (talk) 09:31, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- Looking at other articles with '20th-century' in their title, it seems you're right that we do need a hyphen. Thank you :) Sparkledriver (talk) 21:22, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Biased
Kelvintjy : your modifications on this page are problematic.
Just an example :
"The renowned educator [[Tsunesaburō Makiguchi|Tsunesaburo Makiguchi]], based on the teachings of the 13th century religious revolutionary Nichiren Daishonin, attributed the various troubles Japan was experiencing to the acceptance of Nembutsu and other false religious doctrines which slander human life. His religious beliefs compelled him to take a stand against the government, earning him a reputation as a political dissident."
This paragraph does not respect the NPOV rule, it is laudatory and sounds commercial.
The source is not serious since it comes from the organization founded by Makiguchi himself. Please add secondary or tertiary sources, and avoid primary ones.
Please quote an article and/or a specialist proving Makiguchi was indeed a political dissident.
It looks like historians of Political Dissidence in Japan do not consider him as a political dissident.
Please read this and listen to that.
Also, you have been modifying several pages recently without arguments or using the talk page.
Please be aware that is a serious reason to ask for blocking your profile, thanks. Raoul mishima (talk) 14:48, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
- Also, the sources you've been quoting to argue in favor of the image of a dissident Makiguchi are not neutral. Hammond's study (1999) was funded by the Soka Gakkai, which makes it suspicious ; Dayle Bethel is not a historian ; K. Miyata is a teacher at Soka University... Raoul mishima (talk) 12:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
War again…
Kelvintjy has been modifying again this page without any argument, discussion, debate… Well everything that makes WP a participative encyclopedia. Please come talk here, it's the last time I'm proposing. Raoul mishima (talk) 17:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kelvintjy Hello, seems like you keep modifying this page again, without arguments, and without refering to the talk section. You already participated in several edit war some month ago, and were banned from some pages, I hope you remeber that.
- Concerning Makiguchi being a "dissident", let's discuss it here, but you canno't just modify the page and leave : it is vandalism.
- Having refused the Amaterasu symbol imposed by the military government does not make Makiguchi a dissident. Dissidents at this time were mainly leftist activists, as you may know.
- Also, you must be aware that there are no historians today that consider him as such. If you find some, please quote them here. I guess you know Brian's Victoria's works, that one for instance : please read it.
- Next time you vandalize the page, I will have to make the necessary arrangements. Raoul mishima (talk) 11:20, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hello @Kelvintjy
- As @Simonm223 previously asked, can you please come and talk here before removing everything you don't agree with on this page ?
- As I explained earlier, much historians don't credit Makiguchi for being a "dissident", that is why he does not belong to this page. I also quoted a major work by American scholar Brian Victoria. If you have sources why don't you quote it and let everyone have a look on it ? Please act like an adult, thanks. Raoul mishima (talk) 14:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)