Talk:Pub

At least part of "Saloon or lounge" section seems to be copied from History of Pubs/Bars in England. Kendall-K1 (talk) 01:32, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

I put that section into the article in January 2006 - , using material I had gathered for an article I had published on RateBeer in April 2004 - . The above linked article is a "Term Paper, AP European History Class" written in "July 2008" which appears to have copied either the RateBeer article or our Wikipedia article. SilkTork (talk) 20:59, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

The second sentence here says, "It had unfurnished floorboards,". Should that be "unfinished" floorboards, or is this some British term for floorboards without furniture? Which I doubt. Venqax (talk) 21:52, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

No reason to credit either without a source to check, but probably intended as written. More sourcing needed.SovalValtos (talk) 01:22, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

I don't know how you would reference something like that. Seems like an obvious auto-correct-type typo. Venqax (talk) 00:59, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

"Unvarnished" would make sense. (Some refurbished English pubs have had their floors restored that way.) Bazza (talk) 09:51, 22 December 2018 (UTC

Yes, unvarnished would make sense, too. Unfurnished, however, does not, no matter how you look at it. Venqax (talk) 17:21, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Well, to me, unfurnished makes sense in that it means untreated (in any way besides the roughest shaping) timber. No shaping, sanding, finishing of any kind. It may not be current usage, but that's my belief as I haven't even a smidgeon of a source. -Roxy, the dog. wooF 17:46, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

The text was added by an IP where much was changed including removing citation requests without adding adequate citation. Some of the content seems to be editorial opinion or WP:OR and if no one can source it, it should be removed soon.SovalValtos (talk) 17:50, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

So shaping, sanding, and finishing is what you call furniture? Venqax (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

This article is a bit of a mishmash of UK pub culture, and pubs in other countries. Would it work better as a split? Crookesmoor (talk) 15:58, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

If you mean split into separate articles, I think that would be unnecessary. Obscurasky (talk) 23:44, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

It does seem to be mainly UK pubs, though. Is that an issue? Jackalopeicus (talk) 08:27, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes it is, and it would help if people with knowledge of the concept of public drinking houses in other countries and cultures could expand it. I've added a note to the top to this effect. Bazza (talk) 10:09, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Given that it's primarily the UK, can't we just rename this as UK pubs and then create a new worldwide one? Otherwise this would get very long if we have to add information from all other countries? Jackalopeicus (talk) 11:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

I suggest leaving the article here and see if more is added. When (if) it gets too unwieldy, then that is the time to split it. Meantime, it could do with a bit of rearranging. Bazza (talk) 15:13, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

That works. I guess if we don't have any information about pubs globally it makes no sense to create one. If (when!) we do, we can do it then. I'll see if I can make some time this weekend to get that done. Jackalopeicus (talk) 19:25, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

this article is misleading and puts all pub culture under british pub culture, this should be separate or named pubs of Britain, there is no mention of the oldest tavern/pub in the world being Irish or that whiskey is an Irish product that shaped the world of pubs along with stouts like Guinness, it would only be an accurate article if titled British pub origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.182.72.34 (talk) 02:20, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

It seems strange to focus exclusively on Commenwealth countries. Pubs have a long history in the parts of the United States that were a part of the British empire for example New England and Virginia as well there are pubs with centuries of provenance dating to colonial times. Perhaps a section could be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4040:5059:9B00:2835:E68A:93E6:4F1C (talk) 20:34, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Moved above comment to keep date order. To answer the point, there is no reason to exclude detail about pubs outside the Commonwealth, provided reliably sourced. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:45, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I agree. Pubs are an international phenomenon and the article is too U.K./Comonwealth centric. Obscurasky (talk) 00:43, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I disagree 100%. Pubs are not an international phenomenon; they started in Great Britain - just because they have spread around the world does not justify their history being stolen from British culture. 51.6.69.71 (talk) 08:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think that's what's being suggested. Obscurasky (talk) 13:54, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

The Public House was a British, specifically English, concept. This is explained in detail in Michael Jackson's book on the history of beer. Unfortunately I no longer have a copy so I can't give proper citations. Without citations I can't put the information on the wiki page. The public house was originally a private residence that brewed ale, Ale was sold in a public room. This room became the Public Bar. Gentry were entertained in the brewer's own living room. That is the origin of the saloon bar. Of course things have changed greatly over the last 600 years. Nevertheless, a Public House is a private house that is partly open to the public.

The consequence is the pub is British. There are bars World-wide and some have taken the name 'Pub'. Also British people have taken the Pub concept overseas. This should explain why the article concentrates so heavily on British Pubs.OrewaTel (talk) 23:12, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

In his 1952 essay The Dour Drinkers of Glasgow, Hugh MacDiarmid claims "The fact is, of course, as the very term 'public house' shows, that the condition of the licence obliges the licence holder to have his place at the disposal of citizens at all times - not necessarily for drinking at all; a citizen is entitled to have the use of these places whenever he wants if only to use the lavatory or shelter from the weather, or read his newspaper, or meet a friend". If this is true, it would be worthy of inclusion. Is it, or was it, in Scotland or more widely? Mutt Lunker (talk) 22:59, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Despite his attempt to garnish the statement with some authority, by prefixing it with 'the fact is', it sounds like this is only the author's assumption; based (somewhat tenuously) on the use of the word 'public'. Are public libraries open at all times? I think you would need to find a reliable citation before including any of this. Obscurasky (talk) 11:54, 13 October 2020 (UTC)