Talk:Self-determination

Maybe not in de US, but in Europe, self-detemination as a notion is tied to the basic classical human rights principle for individuals. The concept of 'self-ownership' isn't known as a notion for the right for a person in Europe. When European countries speak about the content of this article they give the article a name like: Selbestimmungsrecht der Völker (de), Droit des peuples à disposer d'eux-mêmes (fr), Autodeterminazione dei popoli (it), Samostanowienie narodów (pl Self-determination of nations) or Den nationale selvbestemmelsesret (da National self-determinatiion right) or Nationellt självbestämmande (sw National self-determinatiion) etc.

In the UN treaties the frase is: "self-determination of peoples" (UN Charter) and "All peoples have the right of self-determination" (International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights / Civil and Political Rights. To give room (in other language versions) for an article on the right of self-determination (for individuals), linked to the english language version on self-determination, and Google finding the right article, it would be good the english version makers respect other countries, other cultures and other language versions and think about changing the name of an article with the content this article has, into "Self-determination_of_peoples". Thanks and keep up the good work VanArtevelde (talk) 19:44, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I'd suggest that this isn't done. I'm aware that there are several countries that dispute what constitutes a "people", whose arguments basically deny that a population constitutes a people with the right to self-determination. Guatemala does it ref Belize, Argentine ref the Falklands, Spain ref Gibraltar. Renaming is likely to trigger ethnic disputes and is unnecessary in my opinion. WCM_email 09:13, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Self-determination in this sense, rather than the personal psychological/philosophical sense, appears to be the common meaning. Searching self-determination gives you first and foremost the international law principle. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:25, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

First, the article should indeed be titled The Self-Determination of Peoples, as worded in the UN charter.

After reading these articles Consent of the Governed, Self-Determination, Secession, and Decolonization, this article Self-Determination is the most ambiguous and awkward.

It is a relatively new term and ill-defined. The article starts as a sort of instantiation of the political philosophy of Consent of the Governed and then deteriorates into secessionist movements, becoming redundant of the Secession article. Self-Determination was the lubricating language towards ending European colonization. The term emerge to facility dialogue in the decline of European imperialism, hence it was co-opted into the UN Charter. The UN does not openly endorse all secessionism or independence movements. In fact, the UN charter explicitly respects the territorial integrity and sovereignty of existing states. The article should trace the origin of the term, discuss inclusion into Wilson's 14 points, and conclude with the UN Charter before linking to the Decolonization article.

In the talk page archives the comment by FOAR was spot on, "This page appears to have become a list of independence movements and territorial disputes rather than dealing with the issue of self-determination as it applies to individual cases." This commentor got to the root of the problem, "the section on disputes is beginning to sprawl out with everyone adding their pet independence/sovereignty campaign regardless of sourcing or whatever. I'm beginning to think the problem here is the whole idea of listing movements on this page at all." Dap567 (talk) 16:55, 2 October 2025 (UTC)

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Description of suggested change: The first paragraph it's an interpretation of the reference. My purposed change is much closer to a reliable source and to the Wikipedia in Spanish article.

Diff:

Sanbor (talk) 15:39, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

I used the following source: https://opil.ouplaw.com/display/10.1093/law:epil/9780199231690/law-9780199231690-e873#law-9780199231690-e873-p-29

Here is the Self-determination article in Spanish: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derecho_de_autodeterminaci%C3%B3n Sanbor (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this request related to the lede falls under the EC protection for WP:PIA enforcement. In any case I would suggest that you find WP:Consensus for this change before an editor implements it and also note that another wiki page isn't considered a reliable source per WP:Circular. In my opinion the current opening of the lede is well sourced and well formulated, but opinion may differ on that.

Closing the edit request to clear the backlog. ScrubbedFalcon (talk) 16:52, 7 March 2026 (UTC)