User talk:Figureskatingfan
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Wikipedia is no place for humor. Everything is very very serious here and we are all terrifically important.  |
Some kind of mentorship scheme for African editors?
Hi. You seemed to respond positively to the idea of identifying student editors, but User:RosPost has now asked me "how to tag for students". Can you tell me whether this mentoring of African contributors is a formal scheme, and where it is documented? The matter of adding a template should be fairly straightforward, but it may be best to consult someone with experience of educational initiatives, maybe someone like User:Ian (Wiki Ed). I want to emphasize that maintaining Wikipedia standards is one of my responsibilities as an admin, and I'm a bit concerned about inexperienced users like Ros trying to "teach" others how to use the encyclopedia and then upbraiding established editors for correcting them when they make mistakes. I hope you don't share her apparent view that it's okay for new users to ignore the guidelines. Deb (talk) 09:06, 5 April 2026 (UTC)
- Hi @Deb, the "mentorship scheme" is a project under the auspices of WikiProject Women in Religion. It's very informal. We're working with a group of students at Nairobi University in Kenya, to help them write for Wikipedia and improve their English and research skills. It's not a formal class; it's more like an ongoing editathon, with a rapid grant attached to it. Many of the conflicts in this situation are due to sensitive cultural issues, which we're doing our best to manage. No, we don't think that it's okay for new users to ignore the guidelines at all; there was some confusion about the purposes of sandboxes, but that's been cleared up. We mentors tend to be overly protective of our mentees, and to be honest, we've had some negative experiences with how they've been treated. At any rate, moving forward, we'll use the suggestion that we add a template, which I'll create, and ask other editors to be patient as we all continue to learn. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 02:29, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- I think that would be helpful. The standard student template does have an effect on how other contributors react to drafts and should allow them a bit of leeway. Good luck. Deb (talk) 07:49, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks, @Deb. Perhaps you didn't know: Wiki Education only works with students and universities in North America, so Ian wouldn't be able to help us, anyway. We'll reach out to him if needed, though. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:01, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- I know he only mentors in a specific area, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to advise on how to go about it. But if it's outside his remit, I'm sure there must be someone else on that side who could do so. Deb (talk) 17:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Deb, all the above being said, I wanted to ask you if you could restore the sandbox. We really need to know exactly what happened so that we can correct it and hopefully, prevent it from happening again. You say that we should have our mentees read the policies, which I agree, they should. However, that's not how new editors learn. They try something, break the policies because they're unaware of them, and then another helpful editor comes along, corrects them, and cites the policies. That's what we need to do here. I'm pinging User:RosPost, to bring her into our conversation, as well as User:Rosiestep, to see what she thinks about this and because she's mentoring us as we mentor others. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Figureskatingfan, thanks for inviting me to the conversation.
- Training program: It would be helpful to link to your documented training program, as Deb has inquired. I understand you received a grant for it. But I'm recommending that you link to the training program itself, imagining that it's a different page, maybe a subpage of the grant or Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Religion ... a page that documents your training program, training materials/resources, students, outcomes, etc.
- WikiEdu: This organization has a lot of templates and instructional "handouts" that would probably be helpful either as re-use or modifying in a way that suits your students. See: Category:Wikiedu.org course templates and commons:Category:Wiki Education resources. BTW, I've reached out to LiAnna (Wiki Ed) multiple times over the years and she's always been helpful, even when the question had nothing to do with a student taking a WikiEdu course.
- Wikipedia Education Program: Are you connected with the m:Wikipedia Education Program that serves the rest of the world? It serves Africa(!), and other continents. You'll find a lot of camaraderie. They also hold an international conference every so often.
- Support: IMHO, though, the best place for you and RosPost to ask questions and/or get support related to your Africa student program is in the "WikimediaEducation" Telegram group. It's robust. You'll get quick responses. I'll email you the link. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:49, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Rosiestep, thanks for your helpful tips and tools. We will do our best to put them into place. I got your email to the link and will follow up. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:04, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Hi, Christine. I did respond to your original request and listed the things that were problematic about the deleted draft, and I see that you have already started to act on these. As you see, in this edit I gave the user a warning that included references to multiple pages that would have been helpful if they read them, notably Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest and Wikipedia:Autobiography. I would say that a good starting point is to ensure that your mentees are familiar with these before they start editing. But maybe I am wrong in thinking that you know who they are before they begin? Deb (talk) 20:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Deb, I understand all that and we're working on the items you listed. Of course we know our mentees; what a ridiculous question to ask and it feels borderline insulting. Again, looking at the original draft would help us correct the errors. It's unreasonable to expect that he start everything over from scratch, not something I think anyone would want to do. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:11, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- What I mean by that is - do they approach you when they hit problems editing on their own, or do you recruit them before you begin their training? It seems quite a reasonable question to me in the absence of other information about the scheme.
- However, I feel it's unreasonable to expect me to restore promotional content. People ask for this all the time, and I generally refuse; I am, however, prepared to e-mail it to you rather than allowing it simply to be re-posted with a few adjustments, because, in this case, there is very little that can be re-used without substantial editing. I would always advise new editors to retain a private copy of their early attempts on another device or platform.
- In addition, I will give you a list of the references that were included in the draft.
- <ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=2024-08-22 |title=Mercy Odondo (Kenya) - SITEI |url=https://www.sitei.org/nominies/mercy-odondo-kenya/ |access-date=2026-03-10 |language=en-GB}}</ref>
- <ref name=":1">{{Cite web |last=Uduak |first=Happiness |date=2025-07-21 |title=Meet Mercy Odondo, the activist shaping gender policy in Kenya. |url=https://thebenchmark.com.ng/meet-mercy-odondo-the-activist-shaping-gender-policy-in-kenya/ |access-date=2026-03-10 |website=thebenchmark.com.ng |language=en-US}}</ref></nowiki>
- <ref name=":2">{{Cite web |title=MERCY ODONDO – Africa Women Summit |url=https://africawomensummit.org/2024/05/17/mercy-odondo/ |access-date=2026-03-11 |language=en-US}}</ref>
- The first of these is clearly not independent. Please understand that I am not saying that this individual is not notable. However, poor sourcing is something that causes drafts to be rejected at review, and verifiability is as important as maintaining NPOV. I would advise the editor to find additional independent sources and work from them, not from something that reads like a CV (e.g. reference ":0" above). Deb (talk) 08:03, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Deb, I understand all that and we're working on the items you listed. Of course we know our mentees; what a ridiculous question to ask and it feels borderline insulting. Again, looking at the original draft would help us correct the errors. It's unreasonable to expect that he start everything over from scratch, not something I think anyone would want to do. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:11, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Figureskatingfan, thanks for inviting me to the conversation.
- @Deb, all the above being said, I wanted to ask you if you could restore the sandbox. We really need to know exactly what happened so that we can correct it and hopefully, prevent it from happening again. You say that we should have our mentees read the policies, which I agree, they should. However, that's not how new editors learn. They try something, break the policies because they're unaware of them, and then another helpful editor comes along, corrects them, and cites the policies. That's what we need to do here. I'm pinging User:RosPost, to bring her into our conversation, as well as User:Rosiestep, to see what she thinks about this and because she's mentoring us as we mentor others. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:48, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- I know he only mentors in a specific area, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to advise on how to go about it. But if it's outside his remit, I'm sure there must be someone else on that side who could do so. Deb (talk) 17:51, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Thanks, @Deb. Perhaps you didn't know: Wiki Education only works with students and universities in North America, so Ian wouldn't be able to help us, anyway. We'll reach out to him if needed, though. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:01, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- I think that would be helpful. The standard student template does have an effect on how other contributors react to drafts and should allow them a bit of leeway. Good luck. Deb (talk) 07:49, 6 April 2026 (UTC)
- Is this the mentorship project?
- I strongly recommend shifting this conversation to that talkpage or whatever talkpage is associated with the mentorship project. I base this with respect to transparency regarding the mentorship line of work. This wall of text on Christine's talkpage is more applicable there than here. There's also this and this on Deb's talkpage. I base this on experience that I had with what became Wikipedia:WikiProject Intertranswiki/OKA, which was originally a group of messages scattered at the founder's talkpage and here and elsewhere; centralizing the visibility about the OKA work improved things for everyone.
- Another question: Can anyone help the African women editors or is it limited to members of WP:WikiProject Women in Religion and/or Wikipedia:WikiProject Kenyan Circle of Concerned African Women and/or just the grantees? --Rosiestep (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Deb, yes if you could email me the sandbox, that would be helpful. Then I would be able to put it on a private Google doc and use the opportunity to teach its creator how to, at the very least, use an encyclopedic tone and better follow policies, which is the point, anyway. I will say it again: this was a sandbox, a place where the editor should have been able to receive feedback and instruction, and then correct their errors, without wasting all this time. I know that I'm not an admin, but I suggest that the next time, you directly communicate with an editor who has broken policies. I'm also concerned that you don't seem to be open to the serious cultural issues involved.
- @Rosiestep, these are helpful suggestions. In the coming days, I'm going to create a new page dedicated to this mentorship project, with links to centralize this discussion. Yes, we in Women in Religion are mentoring new editors in Kenya via the Circle WikiProject. Yes, we welcome anyone's assistance. We also mentor others who find us and request our help and mentorship. We've found that the most effective way to train and retain new editors is in the a community setting, which honors Kenyan and African cultures. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:16, 8 April 2026 (UTC)
- @Christine, of course I did communicate with the editor, on his/her Talk page, giving the reason for deletion along with a standard warning that referred him/her to the relevant policies. You are aware of this, so I don't understand where you think I strayed from normal practice. Practising in the sandbox is all very well, but not when it includes highly promotional language. The responsibility for providing feedback and instruction to individual new users does not rest with individual administrators. I will email you the offending content. There is no need for you to reply. Deb (talk) 07:51, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
Hello to all interested parties: I have spent a great deal of time following the suggestions in the above discussion; see here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Kenyan Circle of Concerned African Women/Mentorship program. I suggest that all mentees in the program add the template to their talk pages and to the articles and bios they work on. I would also ask that going forward, all discussion occur on the new subpage's talk page. Pinging User:Wikedits2024, User:RosPost, User:Dzingle1, User:Rosiestep. I'm not pinging the above administrator involved because it's clear they don't any more response. Hopefully, this is the end of this conflict. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2026 (UTC)
- Thank you so much Christine for creating the template. Hope it works. Wikedits2024 (talk) 08:46, 14 April 2026 (UTC)
