User talk:Naomi Hennig

Hey Gyanda, I hope you don't mind me replying here––I try to keep my Wikipedia activity and offline identity separate, and replying from my email makes that difficult. At any rate, I think the answer to your question is at Template:Quote. Reading through it, it seems like the proper syntax is to convert the field that in German is titled "ref" to "source", and then include both plain text attribution of the source you want, followed by the reference tags. I've gone ahead and tried it out for the following:

Ich wollte etwas „Bedeutungsvolles“ haben, und alles was ich bekam, war diese glatte, oberflächliche Sophisterei.

Also, while I and other editors will be happy to answer questions, if you want to take a crack at figuring out problems like this in the future, I have two suggestions: 1. if you're looking for template help, instead of just searching for WP:THINGTHATYOUWANT, also look for Template:Thing that you want. If the template you're looking for exists, it'll usually have pretty precise instructions there. 2. Alternatively, find a very well-written article that is likely to have the thing that you're looking for, and then just copy the source code from there. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:19, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Rosguill. I'm sorry, i didn't mean to bother you, but i felt ashamed that i couldn't figure it out myself and therefore wrote the email in place of asking it here. And i read that you can understand german and i thought this was a perfect place to ask... i had looked at the template Quote for about an hour... from above till the end... and couldn't figure it out... i looked at my other articles, whether i could find the solution here as i had this problem more often etc. - and i do have a "vademecum" where i write all the formatting info i get - in order to not make the same mistake twice. I'll write your suggestions and your solution down in a minute! Thanks for all the time you spend on this! Now i found out another issue with the article. The article is quite old it seems and the quotations are from books that are not really up to date... today i wrote to a publisher because of the Parthenon-quote and guess what - it never was written in these words, nor in the 1994 edition nor in the newer and revised version of 2008. So, i have to change the quote - in both language versions. Also i do not know - when i translate a quote, do i always have to write additional "(in German:"xx") and give the original quote also? It doesn't look so fine. Anyway... as i live under the roof and we almost had 100 degrees today, and it is now cooler, i'll beter start on the article again. Thank you for your help and sorry that i wrote privately. Kind regards, --Gyanda (talk) 20:01, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Gyanda, keine Sorge. I'd say that unless you are translating something particularly controversial, or if there's something very important and specific about the original language of the quote (e.g. if you were translating Hegel or another philosophical text), you don't need to provide the quote in both languages. If you want to go the extra mile, you can add the German-language quote text to inside the citation tag. So the syntax in this case would be:

I wanted to have something meaningful, but everything that I came across was superficial sophistry

— Sydney LeBlanc, Moderne Architektur in Amerika^[1]

_signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:17, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

My mouth is open. How elegant and beautiful! Oh my, some things can get me really happy :-). Thank you so much! I'm smiling with joy now! :-) --Gyanda (talk) 20:20, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

References

Dear Rosguill, i tried to formate the quote text according to you, but it just doesn't look right, and i can't understand, why. Where did i formate it wrong? {{Quote|As icons of a place or a time, today one rather erects buildings like the opera house in Sydney or the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao. However, they have a similar function as the colossal statues and shape the image of the respective city internationally. |source=Andres Lepik, ''Skysraper''<ref>Andres Lepik: ''Skyscraper.'' Prestel Publisher, 2004, Munich, ISBN 978-3791331553. Quote: ''"Als Ikonen eines Ortes oder einer Zeit errichtet man heute eher Bauwerke wie das Opernhaus in Sydney oder das Guggenheim-Museum in Bilbao. Sie haben jedoch eine ähnliche Funktion wie einst die Kolossalstatuen und prägen international das Bild der jeweiligen Stadt."''}}</ref>

I'm sorry to disturb you with it, i tried to do it exactly like you... am sad that it doesn't work. --Gyanda (talk) 19:18, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Gyanda, fixed, the issue is that you put the final </ref> tag outside of the curly brackets }}. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:12, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I did not see that, sorry. Will add it to my vademecum so that i can check on this if i do make the mistake again! Kind regards, Gyanda

"Then, Now, Next, Evolution of an Architectural Icon, February 19, 2017–February 25, 2018, Denver Art Museum (https://denverartmuseum.org/exhibitions/then-now-next-evolution-architectural-icon) then this one: https://www.nbm.org/interview-architectural-icon-juhani-pallasmaa/, The Los Angeles Central Library: Building an Architectural Icon, 1872–1933 (Book) https://shop.getty.edu/products/the-los-angeles-central-library-building-an-architectural-icon-1872-1933-978-1606064900 - and this one on Glasgow: https://www.detail-online.com/article/flames-consume-architectural-icon-16765/

Thanks for creating Kunsthalle Messmer.

User:Dewritech while reviewing this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

Thanks for your work here!

To reply, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Dewritech}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Dewritech (talk) 10:03, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

@Dewritech: Thank you, that's so kind!!! Best wishes, --Gyanda (talk) 10:58, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Gyanda! Hope you're well. A new user wants to write an article about the artist Frank Kortan. They made a little draft I put in their sandbox. However, an article about Kortan was deleted for failing to meet English Wikipedia's inclusion criteria (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Kortan). I was wondering if you could take a look at the draft's § References section and let me know which sources listed there fail any of the following criteria:

• reliable (for example, publications with editorial oversight, as opposed to blogs and other user-generated content)
• independent from the subject (not a press release, for example)
• discuss Kortan and his work beyond a passing mention

I tried doing it myself, but a lot of the sources are in German. Machine translations help, but I thought I'd enlist the help of someone who knows the language and has an interest in art! If you do a search and find nothing that would help show Kortan meets the inclusion guidelines, please feel free to mention that, too. I'm sure you're very busy, so I'd greatly appreciate any help you provide. Thanks again! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:14, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Dear Rotideypoc41352 - thanks for your posting. I just looked up Frank Kortan and found that the same person had already made up a german article on him, which also suffers from the same problems you just mentioned above. It seems that the user is his daughter and she tries to promote him everywhere. To me this person does not seem to be interested in wikipeda at all. One should tell her about how wikipedia works and that she at least needs to learn about the basics. I don't have time for this and i also doubt, whether she is interested in learning. One tip i do have: she should make up a google-news-alert on "Frank Kortan" - then she can at least find if someone mentions him in the present. Kind regards, --Gyanda (talk) 11:53, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah, so it is, indeed, too soon to have an article on him. Many thanks, Gyanda! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 18:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi Gyanda. Just to let you know, I have eventually got back to the Vincent Namatjira article and done a bit of updating and copyediting. I had a look at your article, thank you, and also had access to The Monthly article, and found more sources too. There is no doubt more that could be added but at least it's up to date now! Thanks again for your input and assistance. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:48, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

How nice of you to think of me! I'll have a look at your article and when i have time add some to the German article. I do have a google-news-alert on all the persons i've written so far, but perhaps google is not up to date. Kind regards and again Thanks! --Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:19, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi Naomi Hennig! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a very specific definition on Wikipedia—it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Please see Help:Minor edit for more information. Thank you. DoctorMatt (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the info. I though "minor" refers to not adding much info on the article. Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 22:05, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Naomi. The message I posted above is a standard template message: Check it out here Template:Uw-minor. It is just a way to let people know that the minor edit flag should be only used for very minor edits; it helps a lot to have the m mark next to edits that really don't need to be checked. I did not add your talk page to my watchlist, so I did not see your reply above. Cheers, DoctorMatt (talk) 18:11, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate this. But someone should make this text friendlier, it was so shocking to me as if someone had fired a gun... and that means something as i'm writing for wikipedia now more than 10 years and am used to it. It really was shocking, as i didn't mean to do any harm. Now i don't dare to use that "minor edit" ever again... I'm very glad it was not intended especially to me, this helps to put things in perspective. Thanks that you took the time and effort to explain it to me. Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 21:42, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I know what you mean by the shock of such messages. Generally, on Wikipedia nobody says anything to me for months on end, and then someone yells at me irrationally out of the blue; it is quite awful, and I've "quit" wikipedia multiple times in the past over this kind of unfriendly atmosphere. I thought, though, that this message was pretty friendly. I wonder what you feel would improve it. It starts nicely, with "Hi" and the person's name. The next sentence seems soft to me: "I noticed", "...may not have been". Is there some improvement there you would recommend? The next sentence is about the general notion of a minor edit, and not about anything the person did per se. The next sentence, too. Then there is "Please see"; not a demand or castigation. And it ends with a Thank You. I would love to hear your thoughts on how this could be nicer or friendlier. Thanks for talking with me! DoctorMatt (talk) 00:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, dear Doctormatt, i like our conversation and thought about your info last night. First of all: i normally never use templates like this. If i find something which is not okay according to the rules of the German wikipedia i write an individual-written email on their userpage... i tried to do this here:

• Dear Naomi Hennig. Recently i saw that you have made an entry to the article Generative art. This you marked as a „Minor edit“. As you normally seem to work in the German wikipedia, maybe you are used to use it in a different way than we use it in the English wikipedia. Here the term is only used for superficial edits, like correcting a spelling or correcting the grammar of a sentence. Every other edit we do not name a „Minor edit“ as the entry could be subject of a dispute and if people see it being labelled as a „Minor edit“ – they might not have a chance to notice it. I hope you can benefit from my information. If you have further questions, don’t hesitate to ask. Kind regards…

What do you think of this? It might a bit too polite, but that's how i would do it. Kind regards, and have a lovely day! --Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:03, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I generally use template messages because they allow consistency and save a lot of time, and I have generally assumed that people are used to seeing and getting such messages. I don't know that I often have the time (or the hope) to try to work out why someone is doing something a certain way, and I just want to quickly let them know that there is something they are doing that could be done better (as far as the policies and culture of WP are concerned). Perhaps the shock caused is too much, and I should not be contributing in this way? I'll have to think about that. Cheers! DoctorMatt (talk) 19:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

No, no, keep up the good work! I learned from you and this conversation, and perhaps the next time i won't be shocked at all, if i get such a message! Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 21:21, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I've learned as well. Thanks for the encouragement! Cheers! DoctorMatt (talk) 00:04, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

On 6 April 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Hessische Staatskanzlei, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that in 1945 the US Army confiscated the Hotel Rose in Wiesbaden, which is now the Hessian State Chancellery? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hessische Staatskanzlei. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Hessische Staatskanzlei), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 00:02, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Quick facts

April songs

my story today

Close

Hi, Gyanda, nice to meet you over this! Thank you for a great article! It's also featured on Portal:Germany. I also liked the conversation above that made me think about our templated messages. I use one for welcoming, and perhaps that also is a bit too unpersonal. I realised that I only add to it when there is a problem ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:25, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Dear Gerda, thank you very much for your kind comment. I love your site with the "The only real nation is humanity"! I do love Hesse, as i used to live there and hope that i will be able to move back there soon. Upcoming i will translate some articles on Concrete art as they do need some updates :-). Have a nice weekend! Naomi Hennig (talk) 10:17, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much! I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. Impressions of Easter here and music here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:31, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi there, Naomi Hennig, and thank you for your translations from the German wiki, most recently Luisa Heese. While I see you acknowledge the translations on article talk pages, for attribution purposes, you should in fact include reference to the translation in the edit comment when you create the article or if not in a subsequent edit. You can find more detailed explanations in Help:Translation. If you intend to create more biographies of women, you might like to join WikiProject Women in Red where we are trying to improve Wikipedia's coverage of women. You can sign up under "New registrations" on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/New members. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 09:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Ipigott, these articles have all been written by me for the German wikipedia and i translated them for the English wikipedia. You can see on the discussion-pages that i gave the reference to the German articles. I didn't know that it would be better to additional mention it when i create the article in the edit comment. Thanks for this info! And thanks also for the Women in Red-info, i'm going to look at the link right away. Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Naomi. Ipigott is referring to the required attribution when copying or translating material from another language Wikipedia, to be added to the edit summary of the edit where you copied or translated material. Suggested wording for the edit summary can be found at WP:TFOLWP. This is a requirement, based on Wikipedia's Terms of Use and copyright policy and cannot be ignored.

There is an exception: when you copy or translate words that are entirely your own words, then you do not have to provide attribution. I suspect the exception does not apply in your case, however. The original version of the English Luisa Heese appears to be a translation of this version of the German article from 21 April 2023 at 13:15. At that point, there were already eleven other editors who contributed to the German article, and if any of them contributed words to the German article that you translated from (as opposed to, say, just changing punctuation or paragraph breaks, or changing citations or the Appendixes), then the content was not 100% your own words, and then you *do* have to provide translation attribution. You can still apply the required attribution after the fact, but the wording is different, and the way you add an edit summary without changing the article is different: see WP:RIA. You should do that now.

In the future, even if you translate words that are 100% your own and therefore are not required to provide attribution in the edit summary, I recommend providing it anyway, as leaving it out could be misinterpreted by other editors. I always provide attribution even when translating my own words; it saves other editors from the worry or bother of figuring out who wrote the original, and whether you know or don't know the requirement. I advise you to attribute all translations (even from your own originals), if only to lessen the burden on other editors watching for unattributed translations. Hope this helps! Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 20:48, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Very nice of you to explain this to me. I did write the German article and yes, afterwards people changed words, and i guess i did translate the article after that! You had a keen eye to be able to explain it to me. I always do add that this is a translated article in the discussion of the English page, but i don't quite understand how i can add what you wrote, now? Shall i open the page to work on it and then not change anything, but write in the edit-section: "Content in the edit of today was translated from the existing German Wikipedia article at de:https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Heese"? Naomi Hennig (talk) 21:15, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi, again! The way it is done after the fact is explained at WP:RIA, including the exact wording to use. How you do it, is by using something called a dummy edit. See if that explanation at WP:RIA makes sense to you, and if it doesn't, please ask again. (And also, in that case we should fix the explanation so it *does* make sense.) Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 22:11, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, I'm too stupid to understand this sentence: "the simplest method is to add a space at the end of the first line in the page's wikitext. Or, if the space already exists, remove it." - what "wikitext", if i click on edit, i only see what i have written, but where should a put the space? I'm sorry that i don't understand this. Please help, if you can. Kind regards,

Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:39, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for your message, but I think you didn't noted I had fixed the link here, replacing the wrong link to the anarchist with the one of the painter. I think the link to Pino Pinelli (painter) is correct, based on sources (eg. https://www.arteagallery.it/mostre/Bram-Bogart-Pino-Pinelli-Donald-Martiny-5-marzo-15-aprile-2016.asp, where Pinelli is described as master of Pittura Analitica). Side note, looking at Donald Martiny's Instagram, he posted a tribute to Pinelli: https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Ztco6rr8A/ Cavarrone 14:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Wow, you're right! Normally i do get a notice if someone changed something, but this info i didn't get. I just reentered the link and hope you can excuse me for having been not accurate enough! Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 16:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

No need for excuses, I was the first to make a mistake by entering the wrong wikilink. Also, I should had more clear in my edit summary when I fixed the link. My best, Cavarrone 16:09, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

By the way: thank you for writing on Pino Pinelli, it is nice to see that he now also is in Wikipedia :-). Naomi Hennig (talk) 20:30, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Naomi. I don't think you had a full answer to your query at the Teahouse. I would do your poem like this (see source code):

Each stroke of paint, each thickened line
Slashes the sky in a sudden design
That shatters us on the inside
Is it the path to holiness
Is it the math, the map to bliss
Is it the pulse of the galaxies
Or is it the song that sings in me?

I don't know how copyright might apply to such a use of the poem. Regards. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:57, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Michael, i could hug you right now! Wow, this is so great! Perfect! I'm so happy now - you should see my face smiling gladly at my screen and meaning you!!! Oh, and copyright is not a problem, i don't cite the whole song/poem and i give a reference-link and i embed this by my own text, so i don't just quote but give an interpretation as well. So this is fine. Thanks so much and have a nice weekend!!! Kind regards, --Naomi Hennig (talk) 14:08, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

No hugs needed! I see that you have included this in the article now. I've removed the {{talkref}} template there as that has the unwanted side-effect of placing the references in that Section rather than together at the end. Note also that you added a WP:DAB link to proportion when you probably meant to be more specific. My view is that the whole paragraph including In her song, Antin highlights.... is straying into original research, since you cite no source for that interpretation. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:27, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi, dear Michael, first thanks for having corrected the formatting. I don't agree though to the original research - i gave part of the poem and i'm just paraphrasing what Amy Antin wrote, as a quote without an interpretation is not allowed on wikipedia. Thanks again for helping me with this complicated formatting. I will add this to my "vademecum", where i put all important info on formatting (and do link it within the document, so i can easily find the adequate info quickly.) Kind regards, Naomi Hennig (talk) 13:46, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I'd be interested to see the guidance that says a quote without an interpretation is not allowed on wikipedia. As far as I'm aware, a quote is just a quotation, i.e. a verbatim copy of someone's words! I recently helped develop the article Elayne Harrington, which is full of quotes, without embellishment. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:04, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

....thinking about this, I suspect you are remembering the advice that quotations require citations but citations do not require quotations. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

This is the sentence in German: "Zitate sind nur dann nach Zitatrecht zulässig, wenn sie einem erkennbaren Zitatzweck dienen, etwa um eine Aussage im Artikeltext zu untermauern." [...] "Ist der Zweck eines Zitates, eine eigene Aussage zu untermauern, so ist das Zitat zulässig." Natürlich sollte die Länge des Zitates in einem vernünftigen Verhältnis zum restlichen Text stehen, und – noch entscheidender – die eigene geistige Leistung sollte in einem angemessenen Verhältnis zum zitierten Text stehen.- which this one does as i paraphrased what is said in the paragrah after this: "Zum künstlerischen Werk" - i thus quote this song to state that what the artist is busy with in his art is reflected in this song - i do have more quotes on his work and the effects in the whole article... source: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Zitate - sorry, that i reply so short, i'm just cooking dinner. Kind regards, Naomi Hennig (talk) 21:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Naomi, when adding brief quotations to an article at English Wikipedia, please never provide your own interpretation. Either leave the quotation with no interpretation, or find one in a reliable secondary source, and cite that. Above where you say,

so i don't just quote but give an interpretation as well

I agree with Michael D. Turnbull that this is original research, and must be cited to a published, secondary source or removed from the article. In particular, the statement of yours that Michael objected to, namely:

a quote without an interpretation is not allowed on wikipedia

is neither contained nor implied by the quotation from the German guideline Wikipedia:Zitate about the use of quotations at German Wikipedia (which is only relevant there and not here, but does not seem to imply what you wrote even for German Wikipedia, afaict). German copyright law concerning quotations is covered here, but again has no effect at English Wikipedia. That said, UrhG §51 is fairly analogous to the principle of fair use in U.S. copyright law, from my non-legal viewpoint.

In general, all Wikipedias have their own rules, and the quotation from German Wikipedia Rechtlinien has no force here. Be sure to consult English Wikipedia policies and guidelines for all questions of this type; the rules may be much different here than there. Mathglot (talk) 23:41, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi, Mathglot, i'm very thankful for your comments. At the moment i'm giving German lesson for a chinese student. Will come back later this day, just a short note: it is for me interesting to see that the German and the English Wikipedia want things done in a totally different way, so i'm very thankful that you explain it to me! Thank you very much!!! Naomi Hennig (talk) 10:40, 8 May 2025 (UTC)