Talk:Chelsea Manning
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Q1: Why is this article titled Chelsea Manning?
A majority of sources now use the name "Chelsea" when referring to Manning which would make it the common name. There has been consensus among editors since October 2013 that this name should be used. Q2: Why does the article refer to Manning as she?
MOS:IDENTITY says: "Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example 'man/woman', 'waiter/waitress', 'chairman/chairwoman') that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. [...] Direct quotations may need to be handled as exceptions (in some cases adjusting the portion used may reduce apparent contradictions, and ' [sic]' may be used where necessary)." Q3: Why is Manning in transgender categories?
The fact that Manning is transgender, and was a transgender inmate, a transgender soldier, etc, is notable and defining and has been discussed in multiple reliable sources (which are cited in the article). See Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization for more information. Q4: I feel that Wikipedia is being biased against (or towards) my beliefs here, what should I do?
Wikipedia policy mandates that articles reflect the content of reliable sources and be written from a neutral point of view, avoiding advocating for any particular perspective. Minority ideas and opinions must not be given undue weight or promotion in Wikipedia articles. It is impossible for coverage of real-world controversies to leave everyone happy – ideas change and adapt over time, and partisan viewpoints are typically entrenched and unable to self-assess bias – but seeking and maintaining neutrality is an ongoing process. Concerns over bias can be addressed with bold editing following the WP:BRD cycle or by starting a civil and constructive discussion at this talk page to suggest article improvements. Q5: Why does Wikipedia include Chelsea Manning's deadname?
Wikipedia's guidelines say that we should include the birth name for a living transgender person in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name. This is the case for Chelsea Manning. By doing this, we ensure people who have only heard of Manning as her deadname can still find and recognize the article. |
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My removals
Selecting pronouns in direct quotation
Due to the contentious topic, I am posting here before making any changes. In the section on military service, we write the following: She was allegedly being bullied, and according to another soldier, was having a breakdown. The soldier told The Guardian: "The kid was barely five foot ... [She] was a runt, so pick on [her]. [She's] crazy, pick on [her]. [She's] a faggot, pick on [her]. The [girl] took it from every side. [She] couldn't please anyone."
I think this is an excessive number of bracketed changes that hurts readability. I also think it compromises the original quote. One option would be to paraphrase, but the structure conveys meaning that would be difficult to capture. Another option would be to remove it entirely. A third option would be to use the original pronouns. I suggest the third, which is employed for a quote from Manning's father in the Background section. Any thoughts? cityuser (talk) 10:22, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- MOS:GENDERID gives the advice to prefer paraphrasing over excessive bracketed replacements. Excessive bracketed replacements are still preferable to misgendering. If we can't find a way to make the line flow better, I would omit it. –RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (talk • stalk) 16:55, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
