Talk:Coldplay

The "also credited as a full member" bit that was added is already covered on the note. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 18:32, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

TBH ... I will need to do some thinking about this. I'm inclined to keep the copy addition because I think that, for an average or new Coldplay fan, they will likely 1) not read the note and 2) benefit from the knowledge about Phil's role in the band. I don't see, I guess, why we can't just cite that claim instead of including it as a note, or even better, keep the note and the copy?

I'm open to thoughts here, and if there is policy I'm missing, I'm all ears. Veggiegalaxy (talk) 22:41, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Yes, this is better explained in the prose rather than the note. If it's important to explain, leave it out of the note. If it isn't not important, leave it out of the article. We can explain when he was first credited as a band member and the history in detail in the article body. Popcornfud (talk) 22:52, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Here's a proposal:

Coldplay are a British rock band formed in London in 1997. They consist of vocalist and pianist Chris Martin, guitarist Jonny Buckland bassist Guy Berryman and drummer Will Champion. Manager Phil Harvey is credited as their fifth member on album notes as well.^[1] Best known for their live performances,^[2] they have had a significant impact on popular culture.

"and drummer and percussionist" reads very awkwardly. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 00:10, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

the drummer and percussionist bit is a separate issue, i think. i think the current semicolon in the article reads more cleanly and has the same effect as your revision. semicolons separate independent clauses that are closely related in thought just like your period in your example does. Veggiegalaxy (talk) 00:22, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Maybe it's a Brazilian Portuguese thing but I'm not a huge fan of semicolon unless it's for lists.

Coldplay are a British rock band formed in London in 1997. They consist of vocalist and pianist Chris Martin; guitarist Jonny Buckland; bassist Guy Berryman; drummer and percussionist Will Champion; and manager Phil Harvey, who is recognised as their fifth member on album notes.^[1] Known for their live performances,^[2] they have had a significant cultural impact.

— GustavoCza (talk · edits) 00:42, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Yeah that's fair.

Ok, so (sorry not trying to pick on you) I think that would be an incorrect use of semicolons.

What about just commas, a period, (so it would be "Chris, Jonny, Guy, and Will." and then "Their manager, Phil Harvey, is recognized as a fifth member of the band" Veggiegalaxy (talk) 00:48, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

I really wanted to keep the percussion for Will without making it awkward. Also, I feel like the first paragraph of the article should be as tight as possible. How about this?

Coldplay are a British rock band formed in London in 1997. They consist of vocalist and pianist Chris Martin, guitarist Jonny Buckland, bassist Guy Berryman, drummer and percussionist Will Champion, and manager Phil Harvey, who is recognised as their fifth member on album notes.^[1] Known for their live performances,^[2] they have had a significant cultural impact.

— GustavoCza (talk · edits) 00:54, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

We can omit "on album notes". He's either a member of the band or he isn't, it doesn't matter where he's credited. They're all credited in album notes so why is he special?

Alternatively, if the "on album notes" phrasing is trying to alleviate some potential confusion about a manager being a member, I would be more explicit and write something like "The manager Phil Harvey has been credited as a member since XXXX" (whenever the year was).

Regarding the "drummer and percussionist" thing - drums are a kind of percussion so just "drummer" is fine. We should be using broad language in the lead. Popcornfud (talk) 01:01, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

I agree that we can omit album notes. We can also just say "is generally recognized as a fifth member"; not only is he recognized on album notes but he is known by fans and the band as such. If anyone is concerned about that I'm sure we could find sources to support.

at the risk of prolonging this debate even further, I would personally keep percussionist, because Will plays a variety of percussion instruments on stage and in recording. But I will respect the consensus Veggiegalaxy (talk) 01:03, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

(whoops, autocorrected from recognised) Veggiegalaxy (talk) 01:04, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

All of them are multi-instrumentalists but Will has been the most consistent/versatile in that regard, which is why I wanted to keep "percussionist" as well. How about this?

Coldplay are a British rock band formed in London in 1997. They consist of vocalist and pianist Chris Martin, guitarist Jonny Buckland, bassist Guy Berryman, drummer and percussionist Will Champion, and manager Phil Harvey, who is recognised as their fifth member.^[1] Known for their live performances,^[2] they have had a significant impact on popular culture.

— GustavoCza (talk · edits) 01:11, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

works for me! Veggiegalaxy (talk) 01:23, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Difference between drummer and percussionist isn't meaningful enough to note. Drums are a kind of percussion.

"recognized as a fifth member" is fuzzy wording and needlessly ambiguous - he either is a member or he isn't. we don't write that Guy Berryman is also "recognized as a member", he's just a member. What problem is this wording trying to fix? Popcornfud (talk) 01:37, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Well, the previous version had no ambiguity, answering possible doubts with a note. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 01:39, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

I actually think that wording works because it's atypical for a manager to be described as a band member. PositivelyUncertain (talk) 02:47, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

I agree with the maintaining the current wording of manager Phil Harvey is also credited as a full member and expanding upon this in the prose rather than the note, and that just "drummer" is fine. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 03:54, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

I removed the forward slash per MOS:ANDOR. Regarding the album notes part: I added it because I was watching Everyday Life – Live in Jordan again and noticed that Harvey is credited separately as an executive producer. The same goes for Music of the Spheres: Live at River Plate, where his name is on a "Managers" table alongside Mandi Frost and Arlene Moon. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 10:51, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

He's credited as a full member, so I don't see the need to mention album notes; the article also never mentioned Harvey's departure or return to the band, so rather than leave it as a note, I've added both to the prose, and his mention in the lead therefore doesn't need to be expanded upon further than credited as a full member. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:07, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

"He has since been credited as a full member of the band" is technically wrong on the X&Y section. A Rush of Blood to the Head already listed him as a full member on the album notes. GustavoCza (talk · edits) 12:10, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

That wording doesn't make it wrong, though. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:18, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

Still a bit misleading. GustavoCza (talk · edits) 12:27, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

It isn't, though, as it doesn't state or even suggest that he wasn't credited as a full member previously – that's just what you read into it; that said, being given greater prominence on the Rush liner notes isn't the same as the band saying that it considered him a full member, and you wouldn't be able to use it as a source/you'd need a more reliable one to prove that the band credited him as a member in/before 2002. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 12:48, 8 October 2025 (UTC)

The "would be released on 15 October 202, and scheduled the closing track" part is missing a number. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 22:23, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Addressed, thanks! Veggiegalaxy (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Could you weight in on the topic above too? Thanks. — GustavoCza (talk · edits) 22:36, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

There are several issues with the lead I would like to discuss at the moment:

• "Percussion": As previously stated, it is fair to highlight the fact Will is a percussionist. He is not limited to drums and plays other instruments on stage.
• "Parentheses": Using the parentheses format avoid having something clunky like "bassist Guy Berryman, and drummer and percussionist Will".
• "The band initially went by the names Big Fat Noises and Starfish": Their alma mater has always been mentioned as part of their narrative and should be put back.
• "The band": This could easily be replaced by "They" to avoid repetition with "the group" on the previous paragraph.
• "They signed": Change to "the band" as consequence of the above.
• "The albums ... drew from": If "repertoire" was not good, it could have been changed to "Coldplay expanded their sound". That statement made things more explicit.
• "Coldplay: A Head Full of Dreams": The term "career-spanning documentary" was previously used to avoid repetition.
• "second-highest-grossing": Being the first tour by a group to gross $1 billion is more notable and concise.

Further commentary

• The third and fourth paragraphs were originally separated between talking about Coldplay's projects and achievements, merging them is unnecessarily confusing.
• The previous lead emphasised the band have two of the highest-grossing and most-attended tours in history, the current one undermines their achievements.
• Leads usually cite most of the notable singles from an artist, there must be more than just "Yellow", "Viva la Vida" and "My Universe".
• On the controversial side, I feel like "Something Just Like This" should not be included.

Pinging @4TheWynne, Popcornfud, and Veggiegalaxy for this. Thank you. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 17:17, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

I don't really agree with most or all of these changes, particularly the first three – listing percussion just isn't necessary and can be simplified to drummer, that would be an equally unnecesssary/improper use of parentheses, and given it already mentions that the band formed in London, I feel like that's sufficient enough/pretty standard for the lead, and adding the alma mater (which I suspect might be more of a personal preference than "it's always been part of their narrative") would essentially be repeating that information. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 22:38, 31 October 2025 (UTC)

Simplifying Will to just "drummer" is a problem though, his bandmates always highlighted him as more than that. Regarding the inclusion of UCL, it's not my "personal preference", it has been on the lead since the Coldplay article was created back in September 2002. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 14:22, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

First, "It's been here for a long time" isn't a good argument. See WP:BEENHERE.

Second, it's normal for band members to play different instruments and fill different roles. For the lead we just want to summarize their main roles. Sources mainly describe him as a drummer.

Third, drums are percussion instruments. All drummers are percussionists. Writing "drummer and percussionist" would be like writing "drummer and musician". It doesn't add information. Popcornfud (talk) 15:10, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

"First, 'It's been here for a long time' isn't a good argument". Well, I think we can both agree it's been there for a reason, no? Chris, Guy, Jonny and Will didn't appeared out of thin air in London; they met at university, became friends and then formed a band. This is something highlighted in profiles written by their agents, opinion articles, show reviews and numerous other sources. Also, it's not like this was removed because the lead is too big or something. That section is supposed to cover the basics and this is one of them when it comes to Coldplay. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 15:43, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

On a rather unrelated note, since I know WP:OTHER is a thing, it's kind of hilarious to think that information seems to be worthy of inclusion on Wikipedias all over the world, but we have to remove it from the English one because two users don't like it. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 15:53, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

That's exactly why it was removed, because the section was too long and needed trimming. I don't see how a group of people meeting at university, becoming friends and then forming a band (even if simplified to where they met/studied) is leadworthy for any band; James responding to Lars' newspaper ad and forming a band is potentially an even more famous example, but is this mentioned in that article's lead? No. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 16:00, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

The section is not long at all. And reading the Metallica lead, it seems that information on their origins was not included because editors needed room to address line-up changes, something that doesn't apply for Coldplay. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 16:09, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Not important for a summary of the most important elements of the article subject. Popcornfud (talk) 16:15, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, mate, it's pretty long. As for Metallica, you're failing to grasp the point: that information isn't in the lead because it simply isn't leadworthy... that sort of detail is for the history section, same goes for here. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 16:24, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

It's quite literally shorter than the example you brought. Either way, if length is such an issue, why was the sentence that contemplated both the Head Full of Dreams and Music of the Spheres tours erased in favor of a longer one that only cites the latter? GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 19:26, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

And how do we gauge that objectively? Because several sources mention it as part of their basic profile. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 19:21, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Apologies that I've not yet weighed in here, I was on a trip and appreciate the tag. I do agree that UCL is unnecessary for the lead for the above reasons. the band has a great origin story and history but if you are trying to understand Coldplay at a high level we don't need that context.

I've been on your side, Gustavo, about the inclusion of percussionist because Will does so much for the band. But @Popcornfud makes a good point that writing "drummer and percussionist" would be a bit like writing "drummer and musician".

Veggiegalaxy (talk) 17:21, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

I feel like it wouldn't be as redundant if his role was listed as "(drums and percussion)" like Larry Mullen Jr. in the U2 article. That separation would make it clearer that he does things outside the traditional drum kit. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 17:40, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

It's not important. Popcornfud (talk) 17:49, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

Pinging @4TheWynne, @Popcornfud and @Veggiegalaxy again because I think we still need to discuss the other points. I'm disappointed that Will was reduced to simply a drummer but the third and fourth paragraphs being merged for no reason is more annoying. I don't expect any of you to answer right now though. Happy holidays and let us talk about this after New Year's Eve. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 21:59, 24 December 2025 (UTC)

@GustavoCza Would it be terrible to just have him listed as "percussionist"? It acknowledges the band's broad soundscape. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 00:03, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

I think "drummer" is too well-established to change, hence why "percussionist" should be additional. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 02:05, 26 December 2025 (UTC)

GustavoCza, probably stop flogging the proverbial dead horse on the drummer issue; the format doesn't need to change (including adding parentheses – just because you might see it elsewhere every once in a blue moon, doesn't make it right). Same goes for the university – not necessary for the lead. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 14:44, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I didn't pinged you again to be rude for the billionth time, I did it because "we still need to discuss the other points", most notably "third and fourth paragraphs" of the lead. You've been on Wikipedia for more than 10 years, so I assume you know something about writing, such as paragraphs being used to organize the text. Weeks ago, the third paragraph addressed Coldplay's post-Viva albums and side-projects, while the fourth talked about their achievements. Right now, it goes from talking about the albums to randomly mentioning "My Universe" and the Music of the Spheres World Tour, then citing philanthropic activities, only for the fourth paragraph to handle stats once again. Long story short, the text went from cohesive to... Well... Not cohesive. I'm asking you to use your review skills here, the discussion is no longer about the first paragraph. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 18:14, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Aside from the philanthropy, which I've moved to the bottom as it's more of a career-spanning activity, the third paragraph (including "My Universe", the tour and the Time ranking) does still cover Coldplay's post-Viva activities, so it's not random; the fourth paragraph covers more of the the band's career as a whole, only mentioning specific projects with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame additions, so it's still pretty easy to distinguish between the two paragraphs. We don't necessarily have to keep all statistics and achievements in the one paragraph, and the fourth paragraph was double the size of the third at the time. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 02:55, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame additions are not projects by the band, they're part of their achievements. If the size was an issue you could have removed them instead of this weird mish-mash we have right now. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 05:28, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

To clarify, the sentence with the Hall of Fame exhibit additions was the only one to mention specific projects (never said the additions were projects), and no, removing the sentence wouldn't have solved the issue, as its inclusion is more than warranted. I don't understand how you can still say that the section's a mish-mash – the first paragraph introduces the band, second is the first half of the career, third is the second half and the fourth covers career-spanning achievements; there's a clear structure, and just because you might have worded it differently, doesn't make the current version incohesive. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 10:02, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

"My Universe" and the Music of the Spheres World Tour are two different things, it doesn't make sense for them to be on the same sentence right now. The lead is also missing the Head Full of Dreams Tour. GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 17:38, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I mean, it does, as both relate to the Music of the Spheres album, so I reworded the sentence to make it more explicit. The A Head Full of Dreams tour is currently the 14th-most-attended and 16th-highest-grossing tour... it doesn't need to be in the lead. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 04:44, 31 December 2025 (UTC)

With the latest revisions, the lead looks in a good place to me! Happy New Year everyone! Veggiegalaxy (talk) 14:44, 2 January 2026 (UTC)