Talk:Lane Bryant shooting

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Proposed move

So just how many shootings and massacres have occurred at Lane Bryants? Assuming that the answer is none, I suggest moving this to simply "Lane Bryant shooting". Unschool (talk) 16:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Support. Nearly all of the other articles in Category:Massacres in the United States do not have the year in the article name and some of those that occurred in a place of business are named simply as such; Brown's Chicken, Happy Land, Hi-Fi, Luby's, etc. --Geniac (talk) 19:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Support. The year is not needed for clarity. Yaf (talk) 21:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Support. The year is unnecessary, as this is apparently the only Lane Bryant shooting. --Zantolak (talk) 22:41, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Done. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 20:15, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Reward

The reward is $60,000, not $55,000, since a local law firm added an additional $5,000. The total was confirmed in the Chicago Tribune on April 3, 2008. I have changed the figure in the article.68.72.94.110 (talk) 14:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

According to the April 6, 2008 Chicago Tribune, the reward as of Friday, April 4 was up to $100,000, owing to donations. Again, I've changed the figure.68.72.94.110 (talk) 18:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Should this be included?

I've caught a few recent episodes of the Steve Wilkos show, and towards the end of each episode, he shows sketches of the criminal at large in this shooting and offers a phone number to call. Should this be include in the article? jeff (talk) 20:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Concealed weapons?

Is the line "Illinois is one of only two states left where concealed carry of firearms for personal protection is still illegal." relevant to this article? Sounds more like a political statement. 75.72.185.96 (talk) 04:29, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Shut up!

Description of Victims

Many edits have been made removing the language that the victims were "plus-sized". These edits have been repeatedly re-inserted. It is atypical to include such a description of the victims. 71.90.69.109 (talk) 04:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, well it's not like this is the best example of standard journalistic writing anyway. 66.26.95.207 (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

You are retarded. 209.159.247.72 (talk) 07:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, well then trot away on your high horse and hector somewhere else about "journalistic writing". 71.90.27.108 (talk) 01:32, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move 8 May 2026

Lane Bryant shooting → Lane Bryant murdersLane Bryant murders – Why ...Fits better in a historical perspective.aButteyFelicity (talk) 21:14, 8 May 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 03:27, 16 May 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 05:05, 23 May 2026 (UTC)

It follows </nowiki>Wikipedia:COMMONNAME it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize. It is frequently called murders in the news. More specifically the Chicago News where it took place. It is also called “Massacre” but it is a controversial term. Murders is more appropriate (from a historical perspective) since its a name more natural and used often when describing it. Shooting is used as well but Murders is the more proper term.

Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English. It conveys the purpose showing there were murders there. Since it is used in the media Lane Byrant Murders is more appropriate.

Precision – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects. It identifies the place and cause= Location - Lane Byrant. Cause- Murders

Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. It fits into the pattern of other mass murders/Shootings The Hollywood Video Murders, The Wonderland Murders, the Keddie Murders, Lava Lake Murders, the Saint Valentine’s Day Murders, The Superbike Motorsports Murders, The Burger Chef Murders, The Austin Yogurt Shop Murders, and The Prom Night Murders. All ranging in 3-5 victims and follow the common pattern of being unsolved or solved mass murders, like Lane Byrant. (Except Hollywood Video Murders, The Austin Yogurt shop murders, and The Superbike Motorsports Murders- the last two mentioned at one point were both unsolved.

Wikipedia:Common Sense Wikipedia has many policies or what many consider "rules". Instead of following every rule, it is acceptable to use common sense as you go about editing. Being too wrapped up in rules can cause a loss of perspective, so there are times when it is better to ignore a rule. Even if a contribution "violates" the precise wording of a rule, it might still be a good contribution. Similarly, just because something is not forbidden in a written document, or is even explicitly permitted, doesn't mean it's a good idea in the given situation. (In case someone’s rude. Got my head bit off multiple times.}} ButteyFelicity (talk) 21:14, 8 May 2026 (UTC)

Oppose, per WP:NCWWW. There is no reason "murders" would be more appropriate. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:22, 9 May 2026 (UTC)
It is Wikipedia:COMMONNAME used frequently by the chicago news stations and most recognized from area it took place.
examples: https://abc7chicago.com/post/lane-bryant-shooting-tinley-park-murders-5-women-remain-unsolved-18-years-later/18527422/
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/lane-bryant-murders-tinley-park-18-years-later
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/video/tinley-park-lane-bryant-murders-remain-unsolved-18-years-later/
It fits in with the above mass murders and unsolved ones above. Your point also does this: Where: Lane Byrant What: Murders of 5 woman in the cities largest unsolved mass murder. It is different from a mass shooting. A Mass shooting is where someone indiscriminately shoots four or more people resulting from gun violence. This is similar to the Superbike Motorsports Murders and Austin Yogurt Shop Murders. A Robbery gone wrong leading to unsolved mass murder. Tinley park is One of a Chicago’s safest cities, making quite a shock for the murders. It is not sensationalizing and providing a neutral message. ButteyFelicity (talk) 00:07, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
here's 3 articles calling it Lane Bryant shootings. It is equally the common name. PARAKANYAA (talk) 01:37, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
Still not convinced. Here’s more on the anniversaries.
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/14-years-later-lane-bryant-murders-in-tinley-park-remain-unsolved/
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/lane-bryant-murders-case-remains-open-14-years-after-killings-we-owe-it-to-their-families
https://wgntv.com/news/cover-story/lane-bryant-murders-5-years-later/
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2013/01/28/the-lane-bryant-murders-open-case/
https://wgntv.com/news/still-no-arrests-on-8th-anniversary-of-lane-bryant-massacre/
https://www.fox32chicago.com/video/1174188
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2017/2/1/18344022/investigation-continues-on-9th-anniversary-of-lane-bryant-murders
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2018/02/01/photos-lane-bryant-murders/
https://abc7chicago.com/post/tinley-park-lane-bryant-murders-unsolved-crime-il/12763590/
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/2013/01/28/the-lane-bryant-murders-open-case/
It is more called murders than shooting. On the anniversaries on the shooting its called murders. Shares WP:COMMONNAME ButteyFelicity (talk) 02:58, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22lane+bryant+shootings%22 Etc. Most, or equal, seem to use "shooting/shootings". Also, the capitalization on your title is wrong, if we were going to move it it would be "Lane Bryant murders", because Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization), "Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper name." PARAKANYAA (talk) 05:14, 10 May 2026 (UTC)
Support Stormm001 (talk) 04:25, 15 May 2026 (UTC)
  • Including the year would probably be desirable, per WP:NCWWW. Also, if we use "murders", it should be lowercase. I see that the template was later changed to use lowercase, so I adjusted the visible form to match it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:44, 16 May 2026 (UTC)
    As it is a judgement call, people should decide. This is after all the largest unsolved mass shooting in American history. Years are supposed to be for unknown or smaller ones to help identify. This one is referred to as a massacre and The second unsolved mass shooting in Illinois since the Browns Chicken Massacre. I support years when it’s necessary, but for here it’s not. Newspapers want years. ButteyFelicity (talk) 14:35, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
    Can you cite a reliable source that says this is the largest unsolved mass shooting in American history? The Wikipedia article currently does not say that, and the case does not seem especially well known. Five deaths is not an especially high body count for a mass shooting. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:56, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=LzQqL9zLNtc&si=QK_BQI71XXGA9bHZ
    https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/lane-bryant-killings-remain-unsolved-18-years-later/ there’s probably more, but it is considered the largest unsolved mass shooting. Just because wikipedia doesn’t say doesnt mean it is. I added it but got deleted. Mind you, this was 2008, before mass shootings got high casualties like Sandy Hook and Las Vegas. Before then, 5 bodies was a lot. ButteyFelicity (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
    Its before people got desensitized to lower casualty counts sadly. ButteyFelicity (talk) 18:14, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
    I added a citation to your NewsNation source. I looked at your previous edits and didn't find a mention of this in them. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:58, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
    Huh? That’s odd. I swear I added it a while back. ButteyFelicity (talk) 19:43, 23 May 2026 (UTC)
  • Oppose per WP:MURDER and WP:MURDEROF. The word murder should not appear in the title of an article if there has not been a conviction for murder for WP:BLPCRIME reasons. While the law enforcement might say they are investigating this killing as a murder, that is only their opinion as proving murder beyond reasonable doubt requires a conviction. Wikipedia articles should generally have neutral titles. Labelling an an event as "murder" means Wikipedia is not remaining neutral in this case. The existing title is adequate and sufficiently imprecise to cover both those killed as well as those injured. The word "killings" which is also used in some sources is also acceptable. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 00:30, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
    But also your forgetting WP:COMMONNAME It is more referred to Murders as well as massacre than killings. Your also forgetting this: When an article is about an event during which a death occurred, the article should be named based upon the single commonly recognized name of the event. As well as: However, if the single, obvious name that is demonstrably the most frequently used for the topic by a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources (the "common name" policy standard) is "murder", that has priority above all other considerations, and the article should be titled "Murder of [victim]". While your points are true, it is more commonly referred to as Murders and Massacre than Killings. “Killings” isn’t appropriate since it is usually used for notable homicides that have been found to not be murder. This has been referred to as a murder by multiple sources. Multiple if not all unsolved mass murders also have “Murders” in them. This argument is best used in single homicides. Also here’s this: However, non-neutral but common names (see preceding subsection) may be used within a descriptive title. This is all rules per multiple WP sources you listed. Referring to this as a killing is highly inappropriate. : Where reliable sources establish that a murder occurred and "murder" is the common name, an article may be titled "Murder of [Victim]" even if no suspect is identified or prosecuted. ButteyFelicity (talk) 00:54, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
    I am very well aware that WP:COMMONNAME isn't the only criterion for an article title, there are at least five different criteria, and the title of an article needs to be a balance of all of them. While the word "murders" might frequently be used in the title of news reports to name this event, it is not the only wording, and other terms are used, too. At this stage, the police have an unsolved murder investigation on their hands, which has not been proven to be murder because nobody has been charged with these killings. Wikipedia editors shouldn't call an event a "murder" unless that has been proven to be the case, either with a conviction or with the passage of time being so long that the perpetrators are likely dead and no charges for murder are feasible. Until there is a conviction in this case, I think "killing" is an acceptable neutral term to apply to this type of homicide. Oddly enough, I think the word "massacre" would also be sufficiently neutral to describe what happened, but it is not used in any of the article sources, so is not a commonly recognizable name for this event, whereas both the terms "shooting" and "killings" are used in the sources and are neutral terms, than the unproven term of "murder", when somebody is still out there who might be charged with this crime. WP:BLPCRIME considerations also apply to this article's name. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 01:50, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
    You still forgot about the rules I stated. BLPCRIME can be ignored by them which you are forgetting. Massacre is used second behind Murders, but it is controversial unless people decide its appropriate. It has been proven that all 5 women were murdered. Killing is still not appropriate. Murders is since as unsolved murders and mass murders, they are officially classified as Murders instead of Homicides due to the link of time of how cold it is. Look up the Tupac case since it is a murder similar to this. Lane Byrant Murders is the common name and is used frequently on the anniversaries and as time goes on. Your argument is still sorta invalid as the Blue Ridge Murders, the Oklahoma Girl Scout Murders, The Shelby Bookstore Murders, the huntington prom night murders, and the Burger Chef Murders, all have murders despite being cold. Here’s this: Where reliable sources establish that a murder occurred and "murder" is the common name, an article may be titled "Murder of [Victim]" even if no suspect is identified or prosecuted. It counters BP Crime due to it being a cold case. ButteyFelicity (talk) 02:57, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

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