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Florentine not Italian
He was born in the Republic of Florence in 1452 thus he was a Florentine, Italians didn't exist till the county of Italy was formed in the 1800's. ~2026-13484-18 (talk) 02:38, 2 March 2026 (UTC)
I agree. I hav always thought of both Leonardo da Vinci and Galileo etc. as Italian, even tho they lived long before the creation of the modern nation of Italy. Likewise, i consider Johannes Kepler, Ludwig van Beethoven etc. German, even tho they lived before German unification (about 1871) (not to be confused with German reunification (1990)). Solomonfromfinland (talk) 00:02, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
Thank you. It's 2026 and people still dont know the difference between a nation and a state? good grief ~2026-40604-83 (talk) 03:53, 20 July 2026 (UTC)
This has been discussed numerous times in the past. I can't see this changing unless the sources change. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 01:41, 2 April 2026 (UTC)
What is there to discuss exactly? This is a historically illiterate comment. Italians have always been recognized as a distinct cultural and ethnic group by both Italians themselves and foreigners. There are literally hundreds if not thousand of examples. ~2026-40604-83 (talk) 03:52, 20 July 2026 (UTC)
This argument completely collapses because it fundamentally confuses a modern nation-state with a historical cultural nation and legal framework. Saying 'Italians didn't exist until the 1800s' is historically illiterate. It forces a 21st-century definition of a bureaucratic passport backward onto the Renaissance.
First, the political framework existed. In 1452, Florence was not a sovereign island floating in a vacuum. It was an autonomous polity operating under the strict, de jure legal architecture of the Kingdom of Italy (Regnum Italicum) within the Holy Roman Empire. This was a distinct legal entity with supreme courts and feudal hierarchies. Italian rulers explicitly petitioned the Emperor—functioning precisely as the King of Italy—for investitures to legitimize their borders.
Second, the cultural nation existed. Renaissance figures possessed layered identities. While Leonardo held local civic ties to Florence, he and his contemporaries explicitly identified with a vivid, self-aware Italian Nation (Natio Italica) bound by a shared literary language, geographic reality, and civilization.
Stripping Leonardo of the word 'Italian' because he lacked a 19th-century passport is ridiculous. By this flawed logic, you cannot call Otto von Bismarck 'German' before 1871, or Hernan Cortes "Spanish". He was a Florentine by local civic duty, but he was undeniably an Imperial Italian by law and civilization ~2026-40604-83 (talk) 04:14, 20 July 2026 (UTC)
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