Talk:Orania

Why is the slur word "white" now used 4 times in the first 2 paragraphs to describe Orania? The community identify as "Afrikaners" and "Boers", not as white. Johnmars3 (talk) 06:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

A 2022 RFC determined that the first sentence of the lead should read a white separatist town founded by Afrikaners. Changing it from that would require another RFC (which I think would be unlikely to produce a different result, since that description is extensively sourced to high-quality sources.) --Aquillion (talk) 01:03, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I think that both options are fine. "White separatist" and "Afrikaner nationalist/only" are both technically correct as far as I can tell Chujovas (talk) 22:42, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Appreciate that you didn't revert my edit. I just find "Afrikaner nationalist" to be more appropriate. White separatist just sounds a bit misleading, Orania is specifically an Afrikaans community. I don't think an anglo would be allowed to live in Orania. I also don't think someone like Joost Strydom, for instance would say "we are a separatist town". Orania isn't necessarily trying to literally gain independence from South Africa, they're just attempting a strangely independent, self-sufficient community.

Thanks again mate,

-Roosterchz Roosterchz (talk) 13:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

The term "white separatist" is misleading and technically incorrect:

a) Orania is an Afrikaner-only town. Not a whites-only town. If it was a whites only town they would be open to whites from England or America moving there, they are not.

b) Afrikaners are not white. DNA analysis clearly shows that they have African and Asian ancestry.

c) They do not describe themselves as white, but as Afrikaners or Boers. Respecting how people self-identify is important.

d) "White separatist" is a loaded word, it could even considered a slur with very negative connotations. Wikipedia does not condone dehumanizing language to describe vulnerable minorities. Johnmars3 (talk) 07:56, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I broadly agree with you, and for the purposes of this discussion, we're on the same side. However, the Afrikaners ARE white, maybe not 100%, but by your logic the average "white" American wouldn't even be white. I agree with you on everything else though. Roosterchz (talk) 15:31, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

"White" has become a meaningless metric. For example the US government classify Middle Easterners and North Africans as "white". However, most Germanic or Celtic people would argue that they are not the same ethnicity as MENA people who seems to agree.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1079181478/us-census-middle-eastern-white-north-african-mena Johnmars3 (talk) 05:01, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

We all know what people are referring to when they call someone white, a person from Europe. Roosterchz (talk) 14:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Orania is not white separatist. They're Afrikaners/Boers, they wouldn't accept other Europeans because they don't share the same language, culture, etc. 2600:8807:8840:D880:C539:31EC:B751:2E70 (talk) 20:22, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I've given it some thought over the days and yeah, 'White separatist' doesn't exactly fit reality. I apologize. Chujovas (talk) 11:50, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Could we say "Orania is an Afrikaner Nationalist town in South Africa, founded by Afrikaners."? I think saying South African town sounds a bit odd, not to be obtuse or anything. Roosterchz (talk) 20:04, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I've been watching the back-and-forth changes in this article's first paragraph and I wonder whether another RfC is perhaps merited. I think "white separatist" does downplay the distinctly Afrikaner nature of the community, but the town was also founded as part of a broader effort to create a Volkstaat along ethnic and prejudiced lines (see sources 6 through 12) and I don't think "Afrikaner cultural town" does enough to convey that at a glance. Just my two cents though. SunTunnels (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• As mentioned above and in the edit notice, the inclusion of "white separatist" was agreed on in a 2022 RFC. Another RFC would be needed to change it to anything else. --Aquillion (talk) 18:33, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Is one of the sources the national census which clearly shows that it's not true. If you take propaganda as sources then of course it will be wrong. The policies of Orania are public and none of them have anything to do with being white. It's pure slander. You can accept it or be dishonest. 102.165.68.50 (talk) 12:49, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

This article about Orania now use the word "White" 65 times. Despite the people of Orania identifying as Afrikaners and NOT as "whites" ^[1]. As this issue has been raised numerous times one can only assume that it is blatant BIAS and a progressive dog whistle (politics). Johnmars3. — Preceding undated comment added 04:40, 24 February 2026 (UTC)

Them identifying as Afrikaners and not as white does not change the fact that they are, by and large, white. ~2026-66317-6 (talk) 07:57, 7 March 2026 (UTC)

In 2026 "white" is used as a slur and demeaning language, especially for a vulnerable minority that are routinely tortured to death in South Africa.

Wikipedia says to be against racism and promoting hate. I would argue that labeling a group of separists in the desert as white "evil racists" (implied) is doing the opposite... Johnmars3 (talk) 05:51, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Hi all, I would like to reopen the discussion of how Orania is described in the lead paragraph. Specifically whether the current “white separatist / whites-only” framing fully reflects what recent, reliable sources are saying. There is growing evidence from South Africa itself that many people in Orania define the town in terms of Afrikaner culture, language, heritage, and identity, and not explicitly race. For example, recent studies of print media (2013–2022) show Orania emphasises the preservation of Afrikaans language and traditional Afrikaner identity (SciELO). Also, Orania leaders have been quoted saying they see themselves culturally (as Afrikaners) rather than racially (ABC News). Since the last RFC, I haven’t found a source that says definitively that Orania is primarily about race rather than culture and so perhaps the lead could be updated to reflect that nuance.

It is also worth noting that Afrikaners themselves are not exclusively “white”. South Africa’s Coloured community for example ("Coloured" being a country specifc term referring to a South African cultural group, and not to be confused with the use of the word in the US), includes many Afrikaans-speaking people who identify as Afrikaners, alongside black and mixed-heritage Afrikaners. In fact, Orania is less about “Afrikaner cultural preservation” in the broad sense and more specifically about Boer heritage preservation, which narrows the identity even further. I think this distinction is important, especially because the larger world often has little to no nuanced understanding of Africa as a whole, and it is our responsibility to present accurate context about what is happening on the continent. This is just one of many issues where Wikipedia can help clarify complexities rather than flatten them. EKoldas (talk) 07:47, 11 September 2025 (UTC)

I suspect you're wasting your time. There has already been a relatively recent RFC, and you need another to change that decision. I think it's reflective of reliable sources. ShadyGroupers (talk) 23:53, 12 March 2026 (UTC)