Talk:Team Rocket

I feel as though Meowth should be merged into this article. This is due to the fact that the bulk of sources in Meowth's article refer only to Team Rocket's Meowth, who is discussed in this article as well. Meowth as a species don't seem to show inherent notability separate from Team Rocket, with the focus being on the individual, hence why I believe it's better covered on this page. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 00:42, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. Makes clear sense to me, and I've considered it a few times myself.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:50, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
• Support Although Meowth should likely be redirected to the list of Pokemon, not Team Rocket. Still, I do not believe Meowth is standalone notable either as a species or a character (though whether Team Rocket is either is still unclear; it's possible they both belong in List of Pokémon anime characters only). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:24, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Zxcvbnm I've given my thoughts already but I believe the sourcing in the article is more than adequate to support Team Rocket's existence. We have several book sources discussing them in depth plus some additional news sources. That's enough in my book, and worst comes to worst we can pull the Valnet card.

  As for Meowth, would it be possible to have redirects to both page, perhaps with a hatnote at the top to link to the other? Not sure how effective it'd be because of the specificity but it could work. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:05, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

  Redirect Meowth to the list, and have a mention of the standalone Meowth pointing at this article in the notes section of that list.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 20:30, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

  I think that's fair. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

• Leaning Oppose to Team Rocket, or at least to consider other options, support to a list. Correct me if I'm wrong, but merging into Team Rocket would make "Meowth" the only Pokemon redirect that becomes covered on a page, not about Pokemon or a list thereof? I'm coming across this as we've been hit with like, 50-60+ Pokemon redirects over at WP:RFD yesterday, and it's reinforced to me that Pokemon redirects should generally be pointing at the respective list of Pokemon where appropriate, or at their article if it exists. This would become an exception that might not be necessary. If this ends up being merged as "not-notable on its own", it'd might be better to put the most important content into List of generation I Pokémon#Meowth (although the entry there is already quite beefy), and then put the relevant links and hatnotes to Team Rocket as warranted. I don't think people searching for Meowth are guaranteed to be looking for Team Rocket; people searching Meowth are looking for Meowth first and foremost. I guess it also depends on how much "Meowth content" would be added to the Team Rocket article, and whether it's mainly from the game or anime perspective. "Team Rocket" only shows up sparsely on the Meowth page in the anime/reception sections, mainly. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 04:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

  Out of all of the sources in Meowth's current Reception, only refs 42, 43 (Though idk if that one is anime Meowth or not), 47, 48, and 50 are referring to the species. Every other source is to the anime version of the character. I can't some of the older sources in there due to age, but a few of these definitely don't seem substantial. Most analysis or commentary of the Meowth character is specifically focused on Team Rocket's Meowth specifically.

  I will note that Meowth's a unique case, since he's practically the only major Pokemon character in the anime who has a major reoccurring role to function in a similar role to that of the human characters. As a result, he's a much more developed character than something like Ash's Pikachu, and that leads to his character in the anime being very distinct compared to his species. I'd argue the most important content is of his role as a member of Team Rocket than as a standalone Pokemon species. As the Reception here is entirely focused on the character Meowth, and not the species of Meowth, it makes more logical sense to be merged here than to the main list. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 04:59, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough; I agree that Meowth is a unique case compared to the rest of Pokemon, as Meowth has been fleshed out well in the anime, much more than other Pokemon. But wasn't the initial judgement about how Meowth doesn't have great standalone-coverage, hence the idea to merge? Team Rocket is already about the grouping of "Jessie, James and Meowth" as a trio, and the Meowth article currently exists as a standalone entity. I don't yet know exactly what content from Meowth is going to be merged. Surely not the entire Meowth article dropped into the page? (Meowth's wiki page has twice as many bytes as Team Rocket's). If the entire article gets merged, it would create a lot of overlap with the existing Meowth content at Team Rocket, and give undue weight to just one part of the trio, I'd think.

I'm right with you that some of the best sources in Meowth's reception section only exist in context to Team Rocket Meowth. Meowth is often looked at as a member of Team Rocket, so those can for sure be merged due to its relevancy, (keeping in mind that Team Rocket's reception section already talks a lot about Meowth as well). But afterward, the rest of the species / video game / other information should be condensed sent to the "List of generation I Pokémon", where it is appropriate to add, I'd think, as Team Rocket's notability and reception are primarily written with the Pokemon-anime perspective, so a Meowth design / video game / special cutaway might feel out of place.

I think that, at the end of the day, it comes down to the execution of the merge; particularly what Meowth content is kept where, as well as where the leftover redirects point. From my perspective, any information about Pokemon (as Pokemon) would be best located on its respective "List of Pokemon" before all else (in the absence of a standalone article). Very predictable, least shocking, don't have to go looking for the biggest source of Meowth information, etc. (Could be convinced otherwise though, depending on an appropriate scale for the merge). Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I definitely don't support merging the whole of Meowth's article to this. Some of Meowth's basic information should be added for context, probably, namely a bit of info on its species, but I wouldn't suggest merging the entire article. I wouldn't be opposed to your suggestion, though, since it seems the best of both worlds given that you're right in that the species conception info isn't really too fitting in an article featuring the TR Meowth. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 20:32, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

• I think I support redirecting to Team Rocket over the list of gen 1 Pokémon, though either is fine. I think the character Meowth is more notable than the species Meowth. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)