User talk:Kathodonnell

Hello, Kathodonnell, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

The five pillars of Wikipedia
Tutorial
How to edit a page and How to develop articles
How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
Manual of Style

This user may have left Wikipedia. Kathodonnell has not edited Wikipedia since 2018. As a result, any requests made here may not receive a response. If you are seeking assistance, you may need to approach someone else.

Welcome!

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Dominic·t 02:13, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Welcome to WP:AUSMUS

Good on ya, kathodonnell, its always great to see another editor at WP:AUSMUS. The Australian scene seems to be relatively neglected on wikipedia. If you want to, you can add a userbox to your User page to announce your interests. e.g. copy n paste {{User AUSMUS}} I hope you have years of productive editing on WP.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 20:25, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your work

Hi Kath. I thought I'd check in and see how your first month has been. If you have any questions, either technical ones about wiki markup or just ones about how things work on Wikipedia, feel free to ask me. It looks like you are doing a lot of great work!

I looked at your contribution list, and the one thing I saw that you might want to know more about is "minor" edits. My rule of thumb about marking edits "minor" is that if an edit only changes formatting or style (unless it is a major reworking of the articles layout, or something like that), it is minor; if you are making changes to content or references at all, even if it's only a key phrase, then it isn't. The whole reason we mark things "minor" is to make edit histories and watchlists more readable, based on the assumption that minor edits are the ones people are most likely not searching for or interested in checking. Hopefully that makes sense. To be clear, though, this is very much not a big deal, and nothing to worry about. :-)

You seem to be a quick study, though, which is why I didn't have much other advice. ;-) If there is anything you have been wondering about, let me know and I'll do my best to answer. Dominic·t 10:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

That's great; references are one of the best way to contribute. You may have already noticed this already, but in the bar at the top of the edit box, there is a "Cite" tab. When you click it, it will give you a tool for easily creating those citation templates, by filling in the fields as you would in any other web-based form. Some advanced users prefer very complex citation styles, with separate, interlinked notes and references sections, multiple columns, and so on. (See some of the examples further down on the page at Wikipedia:Citing sources/Example edits for different methods.) A simple citation template in <ref> tags is never wrong, though. It took me a couple of years before I ever did anything more complicated than that certainly, but certainly check out the page I linked if you feel like being adventurous. Dominic·t 11:08, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Drapht/Oz Hip Hop

Looking 'way back' Drapht was one of those articles I created in late 2006, which then faced being AFD in 2007 for not being 'notable'. Luckily since then I have learned how to create & reference articles better now but there is plenty of work still out there. Unfortunately there are only a few editors out there who seem interested in raising the standard of Aus music articles and I'm glad to help out if you need a hand. Have collaborated on a few articles with Shaidar cuebiyar in the past, which helps as it gives you the encouragement to keeping going. Like your list of references, will try and see if they assist on other articles. Anyway good luck & happy editing. 01:07, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Brothers Stoney

Hi Kath, nice work on the Brothers Stoney article, definitely warrants inclusion in the Australian Hip Hop notable artists section. From the looks of it the state of the page appears to be the result of a heavy AfD debate? If anything I feel it's over referenced and a bit messy at the moment, perhaps you could consider consolidating some of the unnecessary references and further dealing with the WP:Orphan situation when next you work on the article, it's well referenced and shouldn't face AfD. Stevezimmy (talk) 14:08, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

thanks. there was an AfD tag, and I found a couple of references then found lots more. perhaps went over the top :) I'll try clean it up a bit & look at the orphan issues. thanks for checking on it. Kathodonnell (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

DJ Damage

Article looks great Kath! Might I suggest possibly not including it in Australian hip hop the primary article, purely because the notable artist section has a tendency to blow out of proportion, I think it's best to reserve this for groups, producers and solo artists. If contributors begin also including DJ's (and potentially graffiti artists etc.) it'll become a swamp, thoughts? Stevezimmy (talk) 03:49, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Lionel Rose article terminology

Hello, Regarding the Lionel Rose article, I wanted to comment that the article on "Indigenous Australians" which we have both referred to onlys mention that this term has "found increasing acceptance" in recent decades. The problem with this term in my opinion, however, is that it is more generic and presumably is intended to include Torres Strait Islanders as well as "Aboriginal Australians" - which the article claims as the "more acceptable and correct expression" (but not, presumably, for the Islanders). Any further thoughts about this? Cheers, Afterwriting (talk) 07:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Dialectrix

Has just been AfD - unfortunately I don't have much time on my hands to argue the case - will try and get on it on Monday in the meantime you might want to have a look at whether anny improvments can be made to support the article's retention. Dan arndt (talk) 08:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Just letting you know there has been no afd, just a question of notability which I have removed based on coverage. I'm keeping an eye on it in case someone questions it further. duffbeerforme (talk) 16:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Deceptive edit summaries

When editing pages please be truthfull in the edit summaries about the changes you make. Changing "His name comes a frequency on a cassette tape." to "Bias B has released many songs on cassette." is not "fixing some grammar". Aside from the edit summary problem the change does not reflect what was stated by the source so such a change is inapropriate. duffbeerforme (talk) 16:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining why, I withdraw my complaint. Just to clarify what I meant to say in the article, the sources say "The name "Bias" didn't come from prejudicial attitudes, it came from the frequency on a cassette tape. Bias is the inaudible, high-frequency tone mixed with the input signal that passes through the recording head to excite tape particles, preparing it to record effectively." duffbeerforme (talk) 01:03, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Wrong Kind of Stone Age

I am not a great believer in deletionists. In this particular case I feel that LibStar is being over-zealous in his approach. I have crossed paths with him on other AfD nominations he has put forward. Typically he might do a precusor search on Google but if it is an article he hasn't heard of before he seems rather quick in slapping an AfD tag on it. My approach is to try and find references to justify its inclusion. I have to applaud your work in tracking down non-web based references and am happy to assist in improving any articles to ensure their retention. Dan arndt (talk) 07:20, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

If you subscribe to Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian music/Article alerts it will generally let you know if there are any music articles that are up for AfD. Am glad to find a fellow editor who believes in retention of articles rather than deletion. If you are ever up against it just drop me a line and I'll swing by and take a look. Dan arndt (talk) 04:10, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

What You Hear Is What You Buy

Hey Kath, the editor is correct, this is indeed the title of 360's Mixtape, what you see is what you get is the title of his debut album, I believe it's also listed in the article Stevezimmy (talk) 02:32, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Who's your stepdaddy

Unfortunately LibStar is at it again this time he has put an AfD notice on Who's Your Step Daddy by Funkoars. Dan arndt (talk) 09:48, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

AfDs

I've noticed you have suddenly popped up at AfDs I'm involved in. Any particular reason why? LibStar (talk) 22:38, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Brad Strut

Congratulations for your work on Brad Strut, I've assessed it as Start/Low. When you make an article you're allowed to assess it yourself (up to and including B-class). With a bit more work on the Lead and formatting it should soon be C-class. I'll do some copy editing.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

For the article: When did he join/form Lyrical Commission? Who or what is Trem? Is it The Authentic LP or The Authentic LP?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Lead needs expansion for C-class: try to summarise the most important parts in the rest of the article. e.g. "His most popular solo album is... " "Strut was based in London from ... to ... where he ..."shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

John Blades

Its been fun collaborating on John Blades, I've now rated it as C-class and I'm moving on. More work is needed on the article for B-class. The division of material per sub-section remains problematic with his electronic music work overlapping his radio work and MS & RTA discussion in both: better sub-divisions could occur per time blocks? A photo would be good and his exact birth date would help (Discogs has 8 December 1959 but its not a reliable source). Keep up your good work.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:16, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Hunter

Great work on upgrading the Hunter article - hadn't even noticed its creation - you potentially saved if from an AfD notice.Dan arndt (talk) 06:09, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I see that you were one of the last tweets by Hunter – my commiserations on your loss. I've finished my edits at the article and have assessed it as C-class. It needs a photo, more professional reviews, more on his personal life, work before the 2002 recordings and a discussion of his style.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:54, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Mez Breeze

Sure- the article looks great now. I just hadn't been able to find any sources and I'm glad that someone has improved it. There's actually no reason for it to be deleted now. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 04:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)tokyogirl79

I feel sort of bad nominating it since it seems like this had been done before and she was found notable, but my search-fu isn't good with stuff like that. At least it managed to give the article some much needed attention and love. :) Tokyogirl79 (talk) 06:00, 8 December 2011 (UTC)tokyogirl79

Discogs vs MusicBrainz

AFAIK, Discogs is still considered to be an unreliable source and any Discogs inline sources would be removed if you're going for GA or FA, or not used if saving an article at AfD. The problem is that it is user generated, it has little reputation for fact-checking, and is a commercial site. Many discography articles (including songs and albums) have Discogs as an EL which seems allowable.

Conversely, MusicBrainz is not a commercial site, it has style guidelines and is an open content database. It appears to be widely accepted as being more reliable even though some content is user generated.

If you're generating the information from the CDs then you could use Template:Cite album-notes in an article with the url (to MusicBrainz) as a courtesy for online checking of an off-line source. A bit like using Google books to cite information. If the information is something that can't be posted to MusicBrainz, due to their input format, then you probably will have to use the template without a url.

If you end up using Discogs as a source, with you as the user generator, then make sure that such information is provided in the article or edit summary. Other editors can then determine whether it is reliable.

Hypothetical example: Joe Bloggs played zither on Mashtronix' 2014 album Ziteall Sourse which was relased on AliaK Records.^[1]

[1]
Hip, Hop (2014). Ziteall Sourse (booklet) (Media notes). AliaK Records. p. 3. {{cite AV media notes}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |albumlink=, |coauthors=, and |notestitle= (help); Unknown parameter |artist= ignored (|others= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |publisherid= ignored (help) Note: Information supplied to the website from the Ziteall Sourse CD by article editor.

Some editors may find such a note unnecessary. I hope this helps.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:55, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

I've just had a quick look at Quro. The discogs ref could be replaced by the cite album-notes 'plate – you won't need the Note.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:22, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

great, thanks very much for explaining all this & the examples. I'll start using this method. I wasn't familiar with musicbrainz so will take a look at it too. I didn't know about the album notes template either - this is really handy! thanks Kathodonnell (talk) 00:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Ernie

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Aus Mus

Sorry to say

Sorry to say but at Talk:Mary Cecil Allen you assessed the article as Start class: I would say that it is already C-class. The Lead should be beefed up if you want to get to B-class. You've done a great job in improving the article! Good onya! I'll do some copyediting for it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:44, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

You can add that photo link to the External links section using something like:

* [http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an22452836 "Portrait of Mary Cecil Allen" [picture]] at [[National Library of Australia]], photo taken in the 1920s.

(you may have to copy the wikicode from the edit window, select stuff between the nowikis)

If you find a newspaper image, from before 1955 (in Australia)/before 1945 (in USA), then you can add that to the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:20, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Possible images from Australian newspaper (some are very poor quality):

There may be more at Trove.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I had a quick look for the Meanjin article by Andrea Lloyd but couldn't find more than brief references to it in other works.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:58, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Additional source

Another RS you might want to use: here. It includes a print of her work, Sea, studio: Winter, which is held by the NGV.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:05, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

thanks! that's a good one. I hadn't seen it. cheers Kathodonnell (talk) 03:08, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

To handle different pages nos, without redoing the ref over and over, use a ref pages template; e.g. <ref name=emaj-allen/>{{rp|7}} which should display as [5]:7, thereby indicating page 7 of that ref.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

We'll probably do the same sort of thing for the Cramer refs: currently nos [2] and [11].shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 09:04, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Barbara George's thesis, Mary Cecil Allen (1893-1962) : expatriate Australian and apostle of art (2011) has an online summary, which could also be useful.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

thanks

Yeah, time to thank you! I'm moving on: the article is B-class (so I believe). It could be further improved by more non-Australian impact/activities and more on non-artworks. (There's a whole teaching career, which is barely mentioned.) Have fun – its been a real joy to work with you again.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

photo owner

Previously owned by? Most likely Ivy Deakin, see here. Also note it is signed, "Mary", on front and named "Mary Cecil Allen" on back. Ivy Deakin (later Brookes) died in 1970, the photo ended at NLA from her papers. I'm still not sure about the photographer.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:44, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Ownership. That's what I was alluding to. We might have to investigate one of the newsprint images, from pre-1955. Which do you think is the better of the lot up there?

Appendix: my commiserations on your illness. Take your time, get 100%, wp articles will still be there.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:03, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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DJ Damage

Another idea

Additional source

thanks

photo owner

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