User talk:Silence of Järvenpää

@Finnusertop: Hey, I was hopeful that the next sections you could translate for me from the Salmenhaara Finnish-language biography are, in order:

1. Madetoja's later years, especially the cause and location of death; any state or public memorial ceremonies; his struggle with alcoholism; final unfinished planned projects, such as a violin concerto and an opera.
2. Is there any information on Madetoja's reaction to the deaths of his brother (Yjro), Toivo Kuula, and his mother (Anna)?
3. Madetoja's early years, primarily his childhood (esp. details relating to his early training in music and composing; and, the death of his father and infant oldest brother; student years...what does Salmenhaara say exactly about his training with d'Indy and Fuchs?).
4. Content relating to The Ostrobothnians
5. Content relating to Juha
6. Content relating to the three symphonies (esp. information about the composition process, the premieres, and critical reactions).
7. Is there any information on his relationship with Onerva (I know you translated the Finnish Wikipedia page on Onerva, but I was wondering what Salmenhaara had to say).
8. Is there any source information on two quotes that I reproduce in the article, citing English language sources, but for which I cannot find the original source information (in other words, I am in search of the publication in which Fantapié and Parland made their original statements):
   1. Some years later, the French music writer, Henri-Claude Fantapié, described the cheerful, pastorale Third Symphony as a "sinfonia Gallica" in spirit and explained the premiere as thus: "The listeners expected the opera [The Ostrobothnians] to be followed by a nationalistic anthem and were disappointed to hear something that seemed to them to be hermetic and that, to crown it all, was lacking in pomposity and solemnity … the properties the majority of Finnish music-lovers always expect in a new work."^[1]
   2. While in general Finnish composers have, as a group, labored in (and struggled to be free of) the titanic shadow of Sibelius, with respect to Madetoja, something else might also be at play: Madetoja's eschewal of Romantic excess in favor of restraint, perhaps, has made him a tougher sell to audiences. As the music critic, Ralf Parland, wrote in 1945: "Because Madetoja never makes any concessions to the listener, his music has not gained the position it deserves in the public's awareness. People are now beginning to open their ears to it. But that he deserves far greater attention, and that his music is both rare and precious and not simply a poor edition of the music of Sibelius—that is something they have not yet learnt"^[2]

Sooooooooo many thanks, once again; please take your time, or if you're tired of this project or have other irons in the fire, you are of course free to walk away at any time! :) Sgvrfjs (talk) 23:52, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

I will rather not translate entire sections from the book. I think the best way to do this if you ask questions - and the more specific, the better.

1. Madetoja died around 11am on 6 October 1947 in the Konkordia Methodist hospital in Helsinki. According to Salmenhaara, there are no records of what his final illness was.^[3] Critics praised him in obituaries and Onerva published a poem in his memory. The funeral was on 11 October in the Helsinki Old Church. The president did send a wreath to the funeral, as did the Ministry of education, the city of Oulu and many other institutions.^[4] I'd say the funeral was both private and public, but not a state funeral per se. The memorial on his grave was unveiled in 1955 and a statue was put up in Oulu in 1962 (by Aarre Alltonen).^[5] Finnish Wikipedia has some more on commemorations: there is a prize named after him - fi:Madetoja-palkinto, as well as a couple of streets, a high school and a concert hall. The question about alcoholism is quite broad, I'd rather return to it once I've read up on it. Among unfinished works a composition for the poem "Ikävyys" (Tristesse) by Aleksis Kivi and a Requiem is mentioned.^[4]
2. Leevi was naturally saddened over Yrjö's death. The book has a gloomy letter sent by Leevi to Anna where he laments Yrjö's death. But more importantly, the letter makes it clear that the Civil War was a perilous time and they could all be dead at any moment. He addresses Anna: "I don't know if you are alive at the time of writing".^[6] Leevi dedicated his Kuoleman puutarha (The Garden of Death) to Yrjö, and got it published by Hansen.^[7] Kuula's death also saddened Madetoja, who wrote a number obituaries of him. Madetoja also finished some unfinished works of Kuula (a Stabat mater, Karavaanikuoro (Choir of Caravan), "Meren virsi" (Hymn of the Sea) for a male choir and "Virta venhettä vie" (The Stream Carries the Boat) for a mixed choir, but wished them to remain exclusively attributed to Kuula. Madetoja intended to author Kuula's biography with Toivo Tarvas, but they never did.^[8] Of all these deaths, Anna's (26 March 1934) hit him the hardest. He was so devastated that he got physically ill and had to take a leave of two weeks. He could not even attend the funeral. With a part of his inheritance, Madetoja covered the printing costs of the score of the 2nd Symphony, which he dedicated to Anna.^[9]

I'll answer the rest later. Have fun! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 12:15, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch. Such useful information!! Already beginning to incorporate it. Hey, I found this here: "L. Onerva’s second marriage, to a famed composer Leevi Madetoja, turned out unhappy and turbulent. Both partners ultimately became alcoholics; Madetoja signed into a rehabilitation center but L. Onerva, as a woman, was committed against her will to a mental institution and kept there for five years. Although apparently cured, she was not released by her doctors until her husband’s death in 1947, according to her doctors so that she would not disturb his work as a composer."

And also this here: "In the late 1920s Onerva's health started to waver. She had already abandoned plans to finish her dissertation on the French Rococo art. Partly due to her excessive use of alcohol and psychic problems, she spent long times in hospitals, but still writing and also drawing. Her husband fell in love with his young student, Taru Pellinen; in 1927 he even proposed to her in a letter. Madetoja was a celebrated composer, and Onerva's own work as a poet was shadowed by his fame. Pursi, a collection of poems which came out in 1945, was an expression of her loneliness a cry for help. Onerva felt that her husband had deserted her, like her father did to her mother. Moreover, literary circles ignored her. Onerva was not mentioned in Unto Kupiainen's history of Finland's literature, Suomen kirjallisuuden vaiheet (1958). In 1947, after Onerva's husband had died of alcohol, she was released permanently from Nikkilä Psychiatric Hospital, where she was sent in 1942 against her will. There is indirect evidence, that she was in the hospital far longer than it was necessary on medical grounds. What is beyond doubt is that she was betrayed by her own doctor. "I am a fully normal person," she wrote to Madetoja, but doctor Jalmari Lydecken, his friend, wanted to let the composer work in peace, and turned down her appeals. During this period Onerva wrote manically in the small study provided her by the hospital."

Sensational, in both meanings of the word! But neither is what I consider to be adequate sourcing; I think we can do better. What say the two books in your possession? Is there any truth to the story that Onerva remained locked up for Madetoja's composing?! :) :) :) Sgvrfjs (talk) 07:31, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Sgvrfjs. I'm going to be extremely busy in life so I won't be able to make great contributions to this project. If you have specific questions about the sources, I will answer them, but I won't be able to make much reading, translating, or writing. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:24, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe you could include a template similar to {{Handel operas}} in your artciles witha a collapsable list of the 13 tone poems. It is just a suggestion. Cheers! I am vulturing around The Oceanides so when it gets FA status I can translate it. Triplecaña (talk) 09:55, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article The Wood Nymph you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Concertmusic -- Concertmusic (talk) 20:21, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

The article The Wood Nymph you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:The Wood Nymph for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Concertmusic -- Concertmusic (talk) 16:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I would hate to do this, but unless there is an indication of movement on the review of this article in the next day, I will need to fail this review. Thank you! --Concertmusic (talk) 22:32, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

@Concertmusic: I really appreciate you posting on my personal talk page about the GA on the Wood Nymph. I apologize for the hiatus I have taken from Wikipedia, but I am in the part of the semester where I am very busy at school. As such, I was planning on returning to the GA review (and making the necessary changes) around early May, once things cool down. I understand we are on a deadline for the GA review, but I did submit it in November back when I had more time. Maybe we can extend the period based on this reasoning? By the way, I really appreciate the review as well. Let me know if we can reach an agreement! Sgvrfjs (talk) 22:40, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

@Sgvrfjs: I have no issue with that. Having said that, I do believe that the Hold queue is reviewed every so often, as is the queue that times how long an article has been under review. If you are okay with it, I'll try to play the system by putting the review back to Under Review, and then switch it to On Hold, and go back and forth to keep it alive until you have time to address the review notes. How does that sound? Thank you! --Concertmusic (talk) 23:12, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

@Concertmusic: I think that sounds perfect. Look at you, working the system! :) Thanks. Sgvrfjs (talk) 00:48, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Concertmusic, the reviewer has a significant amount of discretion as to how long to keep a review open, but people will start to wonder about a review that has shown no progress in a month, much less the two it will become. I'd recommend a post from Sgvrfjs on the Talk:The Wood Nymph/GA1 page, pointing out that time has been in extremely short supply due to an ever busier last several weeks of the semester, and promising to make progress again on the review issues starting in early May (better to be a bit more specific on the timing than that, actually, so you aren't expected to start earlier than you planned), when the semester winds down. If you then agree to the delay, there's nothing more to be said. Then you can put the review back on hold, where it belongs. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:16, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

BlueMoonset Thank you BlueMoonset - that is valuable advice. I will switch the article back to On Hold, and will make a short note on that page myself, in addition to your suggestion for Sgvrfjs. Thank you! --Concertmusic (talk) 12:06, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Precious again, your first FA The Oceanides!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:45, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• Belated congrats on the FA! I knew it was coming.  Lingzhi ♦ (talk) 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Await incoming translation to Spanish! Good job! Triplecaña (talk) 10:43, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
    • Thanks, Triplecaña! Spread the word! Sgvrfjs (talk) 20:00, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
      • Also just realized that I never thanked Gerda Arendt and Lingzhi for their kind congrats! I appreciated the help of you both! Hope your current projects go well. Sgvrfjs (talk) 20:02, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
        • When would you like the FA to appear as TFA? - I have an article on tone poems, improvements welcome, - I sadly have no time, - planning another FA ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:04, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

The article The Wood Nymph you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:The Wood Nymph for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Concertmusic -- Concertmusic (talk) 22:41, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

In your opinion what is needed for JS article to be FA? Maybe developing the sections Nature or francmasonery or merge them into others. In the Spanish version which I've recently translated I've added info about Sibelius euro coins and collector coins. Maybe we should include more about 150th anniversary but without falling into recentism. Reply anywhere you want. Triplecaña (talk) 11:45, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

@Triplecaña: Hey! Nice to hear from you and thanks for your work on the Sibelius articles, both at English Wikipedia and Spanish Wikipedia. I don't often have the chance to get into a substantive conversation with a fellow editor (I kind of do my own thing), so I'll take this as an opportunity to swerve slightly into a few related topics I have been thinking about. But first, to your specific question about my thoughts on the Sibelius main article. I have a confession: I've never read the whole thing. Not for a lack of interest or passion: Sibelius is without question my favorite composer and I love his life story about as much as I love his music. But time is a finite commodity, and I already shouldn't edit here as often as I do.

And with that in mind, pushing a solid GA article up to FA just doesn't motivate me, especially when it pertains to a major composer about whom it is easy to find information in libraries and all over the internet. Would I like the Sibelius article to be FA? Of course. Am I willing to do it? Not at present. I am far more motivated by the injustice (how hyperbolic of me) of seeing lower-top tier and middle tier composers with stub and start class designations. Often it is very difficult to find good information on these composers and so this is where I think Wikipedia could come in and help curious consumers of classical music.

Composers like Leevi Madetoja, Erkki Melartin, Kurt Atterberg, Wilhelm Stenhammar, Hugo Alfvén, Johan Svendsen...these are our lost Nordic treasures, and they deserve better, more comprehensive encyclopedic entries for people who can't afford to buy the CDs (to obtain liner notes) or read Finnish or Swedish or Norwegian text. As such, I have set aside my earlier project of working on the Sibelius tone poems, such as The Oceanides or The Wood Nymph or even my draft of En saga, to work on a complete overhaul and massive expansion of the Leevi Madetoja content.

Sometimes I can't help but think to myself: how great would it be if every person on the Wikiproject Composers pledged to bring TWO lower-top or middle tier composers each up to GA/FA status with in three years, or THREE within five years (of course within their area of specialty). By 2020 to 2022, we'd have what...60 to 120 top-notch articles for our readers to consume?! I'd knock out Madetoja, Atterberg, and Melartin...someone like you, from Spain, could do de Falla, Granados, and Albeniz...hey, we can dream, can't we?

Anyway, thanks for listening to my non-answer to your question (sorry!). I do have a better lede I wrote last year for the Sibelius page, so feel free to look there if you like. I gave up on it because my lede was too different from and made reference to things that just weren't in the main body, and I (like I said above) had no interest in joining the team because I'm not a great collaborator. Also, feel free to pop by the Madetoja page if you like; I always can use suggestions. Happy editing (and listening)! :) Sgvrfjs (talk) 05:40, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for the long reply. I can see you are a lone wolf. I've been following your contributions to Madetoja and it's really impressive. Bringing an article to FA is months works, and its harder if you have a couple of hours per week. I totally understand your point: I want to focus on Joaquín Turina but its hard to find bibliography. I like doing translations sucking from others research (I'll always verify the information if possible as I did with Gabriel Fauré). But the pleasure to create from scratch an article is way better es:Intempo. I heard about Madetoja because on Radio Clásica in Spain "Los raros" and The symphonic universe of Madetoja. Would you please read Sibelius? Your intro is great and I will probably use it. One question: we all now that Sibelius writes nationalistic music, but why is not mentioned that he forms parts of the Musical nationalism movement. I promised to translate The Oceanides, and I will start soon. Triplecaña (talk) 10:33, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

"You don't own the page; please reach out to me before undoing my work." Of course I don't own the page. Do you think that all of the composers listed should (ideally) include their main instruments and other areas of work? It could be a big job, copying all that information from their biographical articles into the list. Further, does the list require annotations for each symphony? The Haydn list alone could take some while to fill out. Or do you have some sort of filtering criteria in mind? Other comparable lists (such as the List of compositions for violin and orchestra) do not include such details. Your thoughts would be appreciated.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 20:02, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

@Jerome Kohl: Hi, Jerome. Look, I too don't want to edit war, and I think I can be forgiven for interpreting the reversal of my edits as smacking of some kind of ownership. I know you are very active on the page and have done great work on it, but that means also that you know: 1) I have contributed to the page many times before; 2) many of my contributions (e.g., Sibelius, Nielsen, Scriabin, Tchaikovsky) have added small blurbs; and, 3) these have not been reversed before. So, if the issue is that you don't see the value in blurbs, then all of these (not just the Madetoja) should be eliminated; if the issue is that you don't think Madetoja is perhaps as notable as the others (which I would agree with) but that blurbs for the major symphonists are useful, then we'd need to work together, as you note, to find some kind of cut-off point. I tend to think that small blurbs are helpful, because as a reader I often don't have time to search long biographical pages or hunt around composition pages for information, especially since for many composers, the biography pages are not of great quality. Now, I'm happy to cut off at the top symphonists, but everyone will have a different list of who is and who is not Top 20 or Top 30.

But, my final point is this: I'm making good-faith edits and have a record on Wikipedia of editing on Nordic composers; true, I haven't served the community as much and as importantly as have you (sincere point), but I'm not a hack. And my honest opinion is that the page as it stands tries to adhere to, but is not always successful at, following a uniform style. I didn't think up the blurbs on my own; I saw some entry have it on the page, and so I wrote one for Sibelius...then Tchaikovsky...etc. I didn't think up on my own to mention that Madetoja's fourth symphony is lost; I saw that someone else had already mentioned similar things on Stenhammar and numerous other composers. And as for other instruments, I was deleting the violinist reference from Sinding (or was it Halvorsen?), because that didn't adhere to the style of NAME (dates) nationality composer. Let's start a cheerful dialogue; else I'll just retreat and leave the page to you (and without hard feelings). Happy editing. Sgvrfjs (talk) 00:10, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Edit: I missed one of your points. Of course I don't think every symphony needs annotation; true, the decision of which ones to mention is subjective, but scholars do this all the time and the Haydn example you cite, if my memory serves me correctly, already does something like this on a smaller scale. I guess I need to know: is the list only supposed to say the composer's number of symphonies (and mention by name specific works that might be regarded as symphonies (e.g. Kullervo for Sibelius or The Little Mermaid for Zemlinsky) and/or symphonies that have been lost/destroyed/disowned/not finished (e.g., Mahler 10, Stenhammar 1, Madetoja 4), or is it also supposed to opine slightly on the composer, such as Haydn having "clarity and wit"? Sgvrfjs (talk) 00:18, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Given that you had removed the violinist reference from one entry, am I right in assuming it was not actually your intention, when you reversed my edit, to restore the similar material which I had removed from three other entries? I see nothing wrong with mentioning lost, unfinished, or withdrawn symphonies, or symphonies in fact that are not so named (or, on the other hand, pieces called "symphony" that do not actually qualify). The issue is rather what the limit should be for such annotations. It seems to me it would be well to establish at least some rough guidelines, preferably on the Talk page for the list, before opening the list to all manner of accretions since, as you suggest, opinions are bound to differ and Wikipedia editors are not all the scholars to which you refer.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 04:41, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Jerome Kohl: You are correct that I had not realized you had also removed references to the instruments of other composers; my mistake, I thought it a mere blanking of the Madetoja, Stenhammar, and Alfven edits I'd made. Well, past is past, and we have a dialogue now. Guidelines seem good; might I get the ball rolling with:

For more minor composers:

Leevi Madetoja (1887–1947), Finnish composer of 3 symphonies written between 1916 and 1926, as well as a lost fourth symphony. [MENTIONS LOST WORK]

OR

Alexander von Zemlinsky (1871–1942), Austrian composer of 2 numbered symphonies written between 1892 and 1897, as well as a partially-lost symphony in E minor (1891); further, Zemlinsky composed a Lyrische Symphonie for soprano, baritone, and orchestra (1923) and a Sinfonietta (1934), as well as a symphony in all but name, the tone poem Die Seejungfrau (1902). [MENTIONS UNNUMBERED SYMPHONY, as well as OTHER SYMPHONIC WORKS]

And for major contributors to the symphony (still undefined), something like the entries I wrote for Tchaikovsky and Sibelius, that helps to point readers to where to start in the symphonic canon.

I'm not sure that it is necessary to mention years of composition, which could lead to attempts to do the same thing for (say) Haydn. An exception might be lost, withdrawn, and similar works. As for pointing readers to the major works in the form (and explaining what constitutes a "major" symphony), isn't that what the Symphony article is supposed to be for?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 05:20, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

@Jerome Kohl: I think we're on (or close to) the same page, now. Thanks for discussing. I've made some edits to Sibelius, Tchaikovsky, Nielsen, Madetoja, Stenhammar, Svendsen, Bizet, and Strauss. Please feel free to check out! Sgvrfjs (talk) 18:17, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Could you please create Maan Virsi (Hymn of the Earth) op.95. I've seen it also named Hym to the Earth. It is really uplifting and cheerful. I have created Vaino's Song in Spanish es:La canción de Väinö. Do you want me to translate it? Triplecaña (talk) 11:12, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

This is to let you know that the The Oceanides article has been scheduled as today's featured article for 4 June 2017. Please check the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 4, 2017. Thanks! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Hi, Gerda. I am trying to convert the Sibelius list of compositions into the type of sortable table that people seem to prefer, and I wanted to use your template from Nielsen, a number of features of which I like. I would, however, wonder if you could help me make some changes, since I don't know how. I want the following parameters: 1) Title; 2) Op. ; 3) JS; 4) K; 5) year; 6) genre; 7) type; and, 8) notes. So, for example, I'd like it to look like this:

I don't really feel the need for separate columns for translation and key, and I don't think I'll utilize score. I would, however, like the description parameter to load under type rather than genre. So, for example, for Scaramouche, Orchestral for genre and Ballet-pantomime for type and, underneath the words ballet-pantomime, the phrase in 3 acts for description. The reason I would like to disaggregate genre and type is that, with the Nielsen list, the only thing I don't like is that I cannot sort ALL orchestral music together. Hence the need, I think, to convert genre into orchestral (or choral, or chamber, etc.) and the type into the specific composition form (like symphony, opera, string quartet, etc.) As a rough example, see the Dvorak page, in which genre is used as a meta sort and scoring is used as a more narrow sort.

Thanks for your help! I'd love it if we can work together on this; it'll probably be my hobby project in Dec. I've started the project at User:Sgvrfjs/Sibelius_loc. Sgvrfjs (talk) 05:45, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps the score parameter can be hijacked to be for notes/comments, since Sibelius doesn't have a comparable CNW database. I also wanted to elaborate why I don't like a translation column: sometimes the native language term is what is used over the translation. And if each gets it's own equal column, the reader is left not knowing whether the swedish/finnish or the english title is 'what's used'. This is why I prefer one column for the title, with the sorting by the commonly used title and the other options beneath it in the same column as a break. For example, En saga is Swedish and The Oceanides is English. Sgvrfjs (talk) 07:02, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughts. For actual template changes, better ask Andy. I wonder about year before Catalogue, tried to keep the order as in the normal lead: name, key, cat(s), year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

Which template? I suggest raising your proposals on its talk page. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:17, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

{{Classical works row}}, as the title says, used for Max Reger works, for example, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Salutations to a fellow Sibelian! Thank you for your message. Since this is Thursday, Sibelius is my favourite composer; on other days of the week, Delius, Vaughan Williams or Ravel might come top. but Sibelius is the one I have the deepest interest in.

Alas, I don't have much information on Kullervo's publication history. The score I worked from in transcribing it for performance was borrowed, and my whole library is in storage. I'll check whether I have anything useful backed up in the cloud, and I'll try & get in touch with my friend who loaned me the score, so we can pin down the date of that one.

If you would like a copy of the full score that I edited, I can let you have it as a PDF (also parts & a couple of reductions), or as a Sibelius® score file if you have that software. I can also export a few other score formats. Let me know.

I had to edit the score extensively as there were errors in the original, as well as it being unreadable--copyist's manuscript & miniature score. I hadn't thought of uploading my score to IMSLP; until fairly recently, I thought Sibelius was still copyright, and he may be so in the US, but not here in Canada where I reside.

I don't think I'm up to doing a musical analysis of Kullervo, though I'm honoured to be asked. I am so happy thet you're updating the articles on Sibelius' music! I look forward to reading your article on the Oceanides, one of favourite pieces; to me it captures the essence of the sea better than Debussy or RVW or anyone.

Ciao, and let me know if you want my working scores. Feel free to stay in touch! --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 01:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: @Ipigott:

→ (?): Kullervo, Op. 7 (sandbox).

Greetings! My ambition is for FA by the 130th anniversary of its premiere (28 April 2022). What a milestone it will be! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:22, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Silence of Järvenpää: That should certainly be possible. Let's see what we can do.--Ipigott (talk) 19:38, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Quick facts

Close

See my talk today, - it's rare that a person is pictured when a dream comes true, and that the picture is shown on the Main page on a meaningful day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:51, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Quick facts Six years! ...

Precious

Six years!

Close

As it happens, just yesterday I thought of you listening to the Violin Concerto in the first concert of 2021, and the president gave a reception ;) - I'll add pics, - video of the speech (in German) is already on my talk. Great music! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:10, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Awe! Thanks, @Gerda Arendt:! Doing well... I moved what I'd been working on to Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles. Quite a large expansion, but it was a lot of fun! Can you believe one editor told me that they worry it might not be appropriate content for Wikipedia—i.e., "fandom"? Certainly got me thinking and worrying! I think the bigger concern is that, in my zeal, it became less of a list and more of an article; not sure how those over at FLC (once nominated) will look upon this! Maybe I'll just avoid star-hunting altogether. Do feel free, of course, to poke around! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 13:48, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Impressive. Without having looked at details: that's a great DYK article now! And if they don't want it as FL, it could become a GA easily. Will you nominate for DYK? - The Violin Concerto article is not yet what it could be, - do you agree? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:35, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Gerda Arendt:! I have no idea how to go about the DYK circuit, but if you'd like, please do feel free to nominate it and shepherd it through! Yes, the Violin Concerto article is an embarrassment. But I tend to stay away from Sibelius articles that have so many editors watching... the Concerto, the symphonies, his bio. I'm just afraid of edit wars and trolls; I easily get discouraged as an editor, as you well know. When it stops being 'fun,' I bolt. I'm not willing to do the Violin Concerto by myself. But if it's something you'd like to do together, then I could offer to write the following sections: History (Compositions; Performances) and Discography. I just have no interest in doing the musical analysis section. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:08, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Understand, reluctance for both DYK and the concerto. I'll do the DYK, not now though, I'm late with the nom for an article that is still too short and due today. I have too many neglected projects of my own to tackle the other. Here's the Concerto, today's version. ----Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Also, why do we need Category:Concertos by Jean Sibelius if he only wrote one? Haha... what a laughable container! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 21:13, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Laughing is good for your health ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:19, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I went ahead on nominated Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles over at FLC. I do hope you'll have a moment to give it a read through. I do value your feedback. Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:28, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, I was too busy. You mentioned the photo of Sibelius that is on the mark, and a signature, but do we have those? Can't find them on the commons. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:22, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: The photo is the one I have on my user page, with the caption "beloved composer." :) I like this one a lot... it's famous (thanks to the old Finnish mark banknote) and it's of higher resolution, too. As for the signature, Sibelius's very interestingly changed over the course of his life, primarily as a result of the hand tremor he suffered in old age. (I very, very proudly own both a signed photo from the 1950s and a signed cutting from the 1930s.) I think the better signature is the one from his youth. I can find one and then reach out to @Jonadrews:, who was an enormous help with getting me the signature for Uuno Klami! I'm sure there's one in the public domain that Jon can utilize, no? If not, can we use a scan of the one I own? Very warmly Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:15, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

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For all image questions, ask GRuban. For the signature, yes, I believe the scan of yours would be acceptable, perhaps better complete than only the signature. For the image: bring it to the article where the bill is mentioned. I failed to recognise it because I looked for just a head. I like it a lot, but guess that for the infobox, his hair is too wild ;) - I am proud of Henze having signed an opera program for me. And of Gianni Schicchi on the Main page, which I got there in loving memory of Brian Boulton, the inventor of the identibox. Did you know that he brought one to Chopin? ... which was reverted?? - Congrats to the featured list! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:05, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

today memories: an Italian opera, my second ever, as the TFA written by two dear people, and a park where I went with dear people, as pictured DYK --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:22, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

on Beethoven's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:53, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I feel ashamed for taking so much time with this, but I was finally in Helsinki, so here are the runtimes. All recordings were done in 2015. From the CD liners:

@Finnusertop (talk · contribs) Thanks so much, my friend! Did you happen to get photos, because I still would need to know the months and days of recording (not just the year), so as to know where precisely to place it in the table! No worries if not. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:18, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I just took notes. I do remember however that there was at least May, and then some later in the year, October through December, perhaps. What I have meticulous notes on is which symphony is on what CD and the runtimes of each individual movement. If you need the dates or any other info, I will be able to pay another visit to the library during Christmas holiday.

Sorry for procrastinating with this and the other tasks. I haven't forgotten about them; I'm simply lazy and distracted. In particular, I need to thank you for making me bite the bullet and get the subscription to Helsingin Sanomat. I've had so much fun reading the archives! And that's another resource if you need anything. By the way, you can link to Suwon Philharmonic Orchestra [ko] on the Korean Wikipedia if you like.

Oh, and congratulations on the FL. You are truly the greatest Sibelian I know, with considerable organizational talent! – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 18:45, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Cheers – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 13:50, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations, Silence of Järvenpää! The list you nominated, Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best lists on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.

This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured list. Keep up the great work! Cheers, PresN (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää – Congrats! Great work! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 04:44, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

@Kavyansh.Singh @PresN @Aza24 – Thank you so much, my friends, for seeing the Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles over the FL line, rather than leaving it for dead! I do apologize for having disappeared from Wikipedia, but sometimes the business of the real world intervenes... I do hope I will be back soon, for more Sibelius content improvement. Happy editing and thanks again for your service to the community! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 17:19, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Silence of Järvenpää. I'm just posting to let you know that Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles – a list that you have been heavily involved with – has been chosen to appear on the Main Page as Today's featured list for February 21. The TFL blurb can be seen here. If you have any thoughts on the selection, please post them on my talk page or at TFL talk. Regards, Giants2008 (Talk) 22:44, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

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Lovely to see that on the Main page! I remember our collaboration on his works with pleasure, - the ice-breaking one became of a special meaning, DYK? - I see that Song of the Earth (Sibelius) is still a red link, - would that be a good DYK for Earth Day? ... if yes, begin in a sandbox, because it's too early for 22 April? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:05, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! It really was a special day and highly motivating. I, too, remember the 2015 rush to give Sibelius the attention he deserved, but remember that that was mostly you and @Ipigott:—I did The Oceanides and that was about it! Yes, the Sibelius cantatas have been on my play list of late... hence the expansion I did of Oma maa. I do hope to get to those others, soon... but right now I'm focused on, and making good progress with, the Kullervo expansion: User:Silence of Järvenpää/Kullervo. I won't make FA by the 28 April deadline, but oh well... it's still a labor of love! Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:42, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

thank you, understand - stand and sing Prayer for Ukraine --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:28, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I took the pic in 2009, and it was on the German MP yesterday, with the song from 1885, in English Prayer for Ukraine. - Translate to Finnish, perhaps? Italian and French are good models for a short article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:18, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello, again! I am pleased to report that you can confirm that Usko Viitanen and Raili Kostia as the soloists at the Bournemouth performance (and again at the Royal Festival Hall in London three days later) were the same soloists on the recording. This is from William Mann's review in The Times on 23 November 1970 (p. 11):

Last night's performance, with soloist, chorus and conductor all from Finland, had been preceded by one in Bournemouth on Thursday; the same participants are recording Kullervo for publication next spring. It is something more than a curiosity. Less typical of Sibelius than En Saga or the first two symphonies, it shows him as a gifted musical experimenter, with as strong a sense of design as of thematic character; and there is something to fascinate and appeal in each of the five movements. The introduction is a dramatically gripping sonata-structure whose two main themes, strong of feature, reappear in the moving and tense choral finale, Kullervo's Death. The quick themes of the third and fourth movements, especially that representing the hero, give a tantalizing glimpse of the buffo composer that Sibelius might have developed into. The choral writing (Helsinki University Choir) is stern and monolithic, often powerful, and there are eloquent solos for brother and sister (Usko Viitanen, a vibrant high baritone, and Raili Kostia who sounded a shade subdued).

Rather an extensive verbatim quote, sailing close to the wind, perhaps, given Wikipedia's scrupulous respect for copyright, but I think it's just OK, and I hope will be useful to you. Best wishes, and happy editing, Tim riley talk 21:15, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @Tim riley:! Actually, I'd like to request a clarification: What did you mean when you said: "... given Wikipedia's scrupulous respect for copyright, but I think it's just OK"? Were you indicating that using (and quoting from) newspaper archives to supplement a Wikipedia article is not allowed under copyright? Because, I do this all the time, since books and journal articles on Sibelius neither always answer all of my questions nor contain the details I'm looking for! Thanks, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

It is absolutely fine to quote a sentence or two from books and newspapers, but we shouldn't quote huge chunks of prose, and my Times quote was perhaps verging on huge, hence my reservation. Using selected bits of it will be 100% OK. Tim riley talk 22:46, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, @Tim riley:! So, something like this would pass muster?

The world premiere of Kullervo outside of Finland was on 19 November 1970 in Bournemouth, England, with Paavo Berglund conducting the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra and the YL Male Voice Choir; the baritone Usko Viitanen [fi] and mezzo-soprano Raili Kostia [fi] served as soloists. The next day, Berglund's crew played the symphony at the Royal Festival Hall in London; in his review of this performance for The Times, William Mann praised Kullervo as "dramatically gripping", with "choral writing [... that] is stern and monolithic, often powerful, and... eloquent solos for brother and sister"; he also described Sibelius as "a gifted musical experimenter, with as strong a sense of design as of thematic character".

Note: I deleted the citation for the purposes of the talk page. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

My Wikipedian mentor, the late, exuberant, wise, and painfully missed Brian Boulton told me at one of our bibulous get-togethers that as a young man he was introduced to Colin Davis and was invited to the latter's house in Islington where, if you please, they discussed the ins and outs of the Eighth Symphony. I don't know what conclusion Brian, or more to the point Sir Colin, came to, but I was speechless with envy when BB told me of their discussion. The only other Sibelian thing I can think to pass on to you is that during a Sibelius symphony cycle at the Barbican 20 years or so ago, Davis, who usually stepped off the podium looking as fresh as a daisy, looked as though he was about to drop dead after conducting the Fourth Symphony. I later read that Karajan, too, was poleaxed by conducting the Fourth and couldn't do anything for days afterwards. Beecham seemed to cope, although Walter Legge observed at the time 'The few who left the hall at the end of that work must have been surprised to see that there is still active life on this planet'. Tim riley talk 22:28, 1 March 2022 (UTC) 800x600

@Tim riley: Hi, Tim! Thanks for relaying to me this wonderful story, as well as for sharing some of your memories of Brian with me. I never crossed paths with him, but have admired his work on Sibelius's Eighth for about a decade now. He seems to have deeply touched many members of the classical music WP community; what a special legacy. In fact, when I first saw the article about the Eighth back in 2014 or so, it inspired me to join Wikipedia and start writing about The Wood Nymph and The Oceanides. So, in some ways, his example helped to transform me from Sibelian to Sibelian Wikipedian. Very warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:07, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

And, PS: Sibelius's Fourth is secretly my favorite (but don't tell the other six)! :)

One other thing, if I may. Although I'm a long way off over at User:Silence of Järvenpää/Kullervo (though, after much editing, I finally have the lede to just how I want it!), I'd be honored if, when it's ready, you'd consider doing the GA review. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 20:14, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Good grief! Your favourite is the Fourth? It frightens me. My favourite is the Third, which I had the joy of hearing Mark Elder conduct recently with the breathtakingly excellent student orchestra of the Royal Academy of Music. The beloved Brian Boulton would, I am perfectly certain, have been delighted to read what you say about the effect on you of his article on the Eighth. And it will be my privilege and pleasure to review your article for GAN if you let me know as soon as you nominate it and I can get to it before some other editor snaps it up, though be warned: as a reviewer I am even more severe on my friends than on my other victims other colleagues.

PS: Can you make head or tail of the Sixth? I can't. Tim riley talk 20:39, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Tim riley: Hi, Tim! Thanks for sharing this photo of two classical music-editing comrades! Oh, to have been a fly on the wall (with a gin and tonic)! The Fourth is indeed frightening, which is why I love it, especially Movements I and III. I also love the Seventh, too... that trombone solo! And how Sibelius inserts a waltz-like dance at the end, in my mind a late-career callback to Valse triste (well, depending on the conductor, sometimes it doesn't sound very waltzy). If I had to order the symphonies, I'd do: 4, 7, Kullervo, 3, 5, 6, 2, 1... the Third is a delight (so under-appreciated, as evidenced by the fact that it's the only one that Karajan didn't record), and when I drive around town, I often catch myself singing the opening of Movement I! The Sixth is a tough nut to crack (well, I initially thought the same thing about 4, 7, and Kullervo), but I think Berglund with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe or Vänskä and the Lahti Symphony Orchestra are good interpretations. Thanks for agreeing to take up the GAN; and do be tough... haha, I need to be pushed (as a writer, I have a tendency towards founder's syndrome, unfortunately... do know that I always feel badly about editing in my sandboxes rather than in the mainspace. But to cut out the organ is to kill the organism, or something like that.) Warmly, Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Aza24, Finnusertop, FormalDude, Gerda Arendt, Ipigott, and Tim riley: Hello, friends and mentors! Today is 28 April 2022—exactly 130 years ago to the day, in 1892, Jean Sibelius's marvelous Kullervo Symphony premiered to the public in the Ceremonial Hall at the University of Helsinki, the composer conducting. While I didn't make my deadline for FA, the work goes on, the cause endures. Hope this day finds you well, happy, and productive. Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:11, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Bravo Sibelius and bravo SoJ! Same to you—and excited to work on the comp list in June. Aza24 (talk) 00:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Aza24 I am ready to begin our project when you are! Would you like us to work in: (a) my sandbox, (b) your sandbox, (c) the draftspace, or (d) directly in the existing article? Looking forward, too, to learning a good bit from you. Warmly ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 13:41, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

We could do it in your sandbox? (I have so many sandboxes, I'm afraid of creating more!). Out of the mainspace would give us much more room for experimentation and the draftspace can be a bit invasive from others. Good to hear from you! Aza24 (talk)

Precious anniversary

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good plans! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 04:58, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

I heard Be Still, My Soul recently, and wonder if it should have an article beyond Finlandia? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:20, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Gerda Arendt! Thanks for checking in! I admit to not knowing the various songs to which Sibelius's famous melody has been set, primarily because I've never quite had a taste for church music. My understanding, however, is that the hymn tune from Finlandia is certainly famous enough to have its own article (which it does), but probably not each given iteration (e.g., Be Still, My Soul)... in fact, I like how the current article attends to these as subsections. If anything, maybe it would be best to pour one's labor into expanding the Finlandia Hymn article? Not a job for me, as the Finlandia Hymn isn't really about Sibelius... and right now, I'm sidetracked from my Kullervo expansion by doing a The Maiden in the Tower expansion, a tuneful, short opera that has caught my ear! (Aside: Why only TWO studio recordings?! [Neither of which is by a Finnish orchestra] Come on, Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra, Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra, Finnish National Opera Orchestra, and Lahti Symphony Orchestra! Get on it! Hannu Lintu just took over the National Opera, and so it would be a great project for him! And I cannot believe that Leif Segerstam, when recording the Complete Sibelius incidental music, didn't also do The Maiden in the Tower!) Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 17:03, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I learned a lot, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

I looked at the opera, and am impressed! There's potential for a GA and DYK, which would make it better known. I'll read when I have more time. There may be more details such as that I never saw an opera article mentioning the voice types of the singers in the lead. Check Falstaff and L'incoronazione di Poppea, for model opera articles. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:20, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello, assembled friends Aza24, Finnusertop, Gerda Arendt, and Ipigott! A great mystery awaits, should you wish to assist. No worries if this isn't your 'cup of tea' (pun intended... you'll get it after reading and clicking) :P

• Mission: To find a photo of the Finnish soprano Ida Flodin [fi] that is from the 1890s, as she created the titular role in 1896's The Maiden in the Tower. In the current photo we have of her on WP, she is too old.
• Evidence: We know that...

1. Ida married Ivar Aavatsmark, and became Ida Flodin-Aavatsmark.
2. Fanny, her sister, married Kristian Edmund Leopold Gustavson, and became Fanny Flodin-Gustavson.
3. finna.fi, where I get most of the free-use photos I upload onto Commons, has two images:

• It labels this photo as being of "Ida Flodin & Ivar Aavatsmark".
• It labels this photo as being of "Pianist Fanny Flodin-Gustavson with her sister, singer Ida Flodin Aavatsmark"

• Problem: Doesn't it seem like finna.fi has confused things?

1. The bride in the first photo is clearly the woman on the left in the second photo, right?
2. And the woman on the right in the second photo looks like a younger version of the image of an older Ida we have on WP, right?
3. And the groom in the first photo is clearly not the same man as the photo we have for Ivar Aavatsmark on WP, right?
4. This leads me to conclude that Ida is the woman on the right in the second photo and that finna.fi has mislabeled the first photo as "Ida Flodin & Ivar Aavatsmark"... the correct label should be "Fanny Flodin & Kristian Edmund Leopold Gustavson".

• Why it matters: Because I want to take the second image and crop out Fanny and upload it as a younger photo of just Ida. If I follow finna.fi, I would select the sister on the left as Ida and upload. If I follow the logic above, I would select the sister on the right as Ida and upload (but this would seem to be 'original research' and 'violate the source'?). So, what should I do? Many thanks, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 15:33, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

I wanted to look around a bit before I responded, and did so twice to no avail. I actually did some reverse image google searches, which were impressively unhelpful. If it is any consolation, the bride in the 1st and the woman on the left in the 2nd don't look blatantly obvious to me as the same person, suggesting a less clear connection like the designated siblings one. However, I can't say either possibility is clearly convincing. Aza24 (talk) 19:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

I hope you enjoyed your stay in my guest room.
Here is an ice-cold glass of lemonade as a thank you, complimentary.
Visiting my guest room also means you've gained a new talk page watcher! ––FormalDude talk 21:10, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

FormalDude ~ Oh no! I'm a limeade man! :P But thanks, nonetheless. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 19:09, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

On 20 August 2022, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Matti Lehtinen, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. PFHLai (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

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Thank you for this, and the Maiden, and for what you told Aza24. - Look at the church where I heard VOCES8. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:50, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

The article The Maiden in the Tower you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:The Maiden in the Tower for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Aza24 -- Aza24 (talk) 02:41, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

On 7 September 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Matti Lehtinen, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Matti Lehtinen, a baritone of the Finnish National Opera and professor of singing at the Sibelius Academy, was the voice of God at age 93? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Matti Lehtinen. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Matti Lehtinen), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

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Thank you for what you did for him, and for the Maiden. Do you have DYK plans for her? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Gerda Arendt! Please... it was all your doing; I did very, very little! :) Glad you noticed The Maiden getting to GA! What fun it was to work with Aza24 on it and make improvements. I think my plan is likely for an FAN, but a bit later. Suddenly, I'm playing around with Scaramouche here. (I still can't believe I managed to learn the basics of LilyPond!) I thought, why stop at Sibelius's only opera? Perhaps on to his only ballet! Do please feel free to do any DYK on the Sibelius articles I expand. And thanks for the flowers... you take such lovely pictures. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:40, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and why Scaramouche? Well, it premiered in Copenhagen in 1922. And the Danish archives just made the 1922 newspapers FREE, as we've hit the century mark, and so now I can read the original critics' reviews! Going to be using a lot of Google translate. Yay, it's the kind of stuff that keeps the latent, oppressed historian in me going. :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:44, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

a rainbow today, and a deer yesterday (but hard to see) - Jubilate Deo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I have always been surprised by the accuracy of google translate. A few years ago I remember doing Spanish with it and getting awful results, though this year I've done much German and Italian, getting nearly perfectly intelligible results... it's still not so great with Chinese though! Aza24 (talk) 21:29, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I am, too! I'm very thankful to the wizards who built the algorithm, because without the Finnish-to-English and Swedish-to-English translators, I wouldn't be able to do my work hobby here (the pieces I take on sometimes have very little beyond the basics written about them in English). I also have a hunch that Google reshaped the online translation industry: when teaching, I used to use as an analogy for the importance of institutional variation on political outcomes the translation of an English sentence into Spanish in: Google, Babylon, and a handful of other competitors, as well as a native speaker's translation. Students would put the English sentence in to each, press translate, and see... *BAM!* different translation outputs, despite the same input! This illustrated that the 'institution' one used for the job 'mattered'. But nowadays, the activity doesn't work so well because the outputs have converged and standardized around Google's translation. And less variation makes for a less compelling analogy. :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 13:14, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I just listened to around half of the first act from Scaramouche. It's interesting, I'm not sure what to make of it. A lot of it sounded Tchaikovskian and perhaps a little Grieg, though certainly original on its own. I did find some parts lacked a sense of 'direction', but I assume without performers on a stage to accompany the music, I cannot evaluate that aspect properly. The waltzes were lovely. The use of piano was very effective—though rather surprising! Aza24 (talk) 23:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Wow! Hi, Aza24... I'm so pleased that you gave Act I of Scaramouche a listen! Did you do the recording by Järvi or by Segerstam? The latter takes things a bit more slowly. Yes, it is a confusing score... one that took me a while to warm up to. The words I would use to describe it are "strange", "creepy", and "haunting", and yet those sounds combine into something that actually has wonderful moments of beauty and elegance. But, yes, it's the only incidental music by Sibelius that he did not convert subsequently into a concert suite (although I think he could have done so effectively, as evidenced by the two excerpted pieces for solo piano, which are great fun). The backstory of Scaramouche is one that I find terribly funny... a comedy of errors: First, Sibelius thought he had signed on to write a few numbers, and only later realized it was a full, through-composed score! Second, He also was assured that there would be no dialogue, but of course at the premiere in 1922 there was! Third, he hated the libretto and thought it was a blatant plagiarism of a play to which Ernő Dohnányi had written incidental music. But, in the end, he apparently really admired what he'd produced. Maybe give Act II a listen, as well? The love theme (my second Lilypond example) in Scene 5 is quite lovely... I often find myself humming it. Haha. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 13:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

It was Järvi—who I just read an interesting article about in the latest BBC Music Magazine. Yes, I will certainly have to check out the second act as well... you are also reminding me of the Dohnányi pieces I've been meaning to give a listen. Your Lilypond escapes are making me jealous... I fear I will have to endeavor in such coding in the near future! Aza24 (talk) 05:35, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Aza24 ~ Wow! To make an editor of your calibre jealous is surely my finest WP moment! :) I'm not great with LilyPond, but I hammer (square pegs into round holes) until I get something that mirrors the printed score and sounds to my hears like the recording I'm using for comparison! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 22:38, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

The rose pic was taken on 11 Sep 2021, and this year was full of music that day, Tag des offenen Denkmals, not only singing in church and rehearsals for Verdi's Requiem, but two concerts at special places pictured, one a synagogue (pictured on its wall). Today three DYK: a piece we'll perform on Sunday, a violinist we heard in June playing the Berg Concerto, and a Youth Orchestra shaped by a conductor who recently died. Almost too much of a good thing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Chamber music pictured today: Spannungen --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

travel and strings sound --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:45, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

On 23 September 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Maiden in the Tower, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that The Maiden in the Tower, the only opera by Jean Sibelius, was withdrawn after only three performances with the intention to revise it, which never happened? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Maiden in the Tower. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, The Maiden in the Tower), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Gerda Arendt, Aza24... Good morning! Wow! 4,050 views yesterday for The Maiden in the Tower! Thanks, Gerda, for your work on the DYK (and, again, to you Aza for your work on the GA). Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 14:14, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Congrats!!! Aza24 (talk) 06:24, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

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today featured Ich will den Kreuzstab gerne tragen, BWV 56! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:37, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Aza24. Hope you've been well! Sorry that I've been AWOL due to IRL. Anyway, a quick question: there's a user who keeps making disruptive edits (e.g., not following MOS and partial conversions of US Eng to GB Eng without first discussing on the Talk Page) to Kullervo and The Wood Nymph. While I was able to revert the former, I was unable to do so to the latter, due to (1) the user making more than one published batch of edits and (2) another user coming in to typo-fix. I thus think I need a rollback, but have never requested one and was hopeful you could point me in the right direction. On another note: Is there a way that the problematic editor can be reined in? They're creating unnecessary labor for others... oops, I better say labour! :P Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 13:43, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

I've reverted the edits on The Wood Nymph, which were highly problematic in numerous ways and left a comment on their talk page. I doubt they will read it, but maybe they'll get the message when they see their edits removed? If not, we can reach out to an admin. This is the kind of thing where Wikipedia:Communication is required, so if they continue to ignore us, a block isn't out of the question.

To request rollback you should go here, but they will only accept your request if you have a proven recent history of reverting substantial vandalism and then placing warnings on those pages. However, what you might consider instead is getting Wikipedia:Twinkle (I'm assuming you don't have it enabled already), which only requires going to your preferences, gadgets, checking "twinkle" and saving. It is kind of a source of confusion that twinkle offers rollback function (and perhaps more helpfully, the "restore this revision" function) but does not require a request, where as the formal rollback does, but is essentially the same thing. You'll find a huge amount of useful features under the "TW" tab next to "view history" in articles, making AFD nominations and such way easier. Aza24 (talk) 21:31, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Aza24. Sorry! I fell behind on my correspondence. Thanks for taking the initiative and messaging the user in question., as well as for doing the reverts on the Sibelius articles in question. Seems like that user has again become inactive. Also, I appreciate the suggestion for adding the Twinkle tool. I will have to look into it. Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 18:50, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

But why? :( Aza24 (talk) 03:57, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Haha... okay, okay, okay. I'm sorry! Revert me. :) (My reasoning is that there are a ton of films, and it's hard to reconstruct the record of his contributions without becoming a Swedish film buff!) My bad. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 04:10, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Quick facts happy new year ...

December songs

happy new year

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It's his birthday! - Today, also a hymn for a Marian feast, and I learned that Yvonne Ciannella died, the soprano who impressed me in my first night at the opera. As she died in March, sadly no Main page reverence is possible, - at least she had a good DYK, at a time when opera singers were considered interesting. I'm proud today that Christiane Hörbiger made it to that corner, and happy that we celebrate the birthday of Jean Sibelius again. - I heard an excellent Christmas concert yesterday, by Tenebrae, and a short excerpt of them singing "Deo gracias" is also linked from my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Today was a day rich in music, with two new pictures, and also rich in WP:QAI contributions on the Main page: the TFA, 2 DYK and 2 RD with members as principal editors. The church pictured there (not by me, nice snow dust and tall evergreen) comes with memories, detailed on my talk. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Enjoy the season, dreaming of peace! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:56, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Gerda Arendt! Happy new year to you, too; thanks for everything, especially for remembering Jean's birthday! Can you believe that I missed it???!?!?! :( ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:22, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I believe it because without our Main page, I'd have missed it as well. Today we see another composer there, Osbert Parsley. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:44, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Finnusertop! A happy new year to you. I have been looking to work on the article for Sibelius's Voces intimae string quartet (1909), which is his lone notable work for chamber ensemble. Using the digitized newspaper archives, I have located the original reviews from the 25 April 1910 premiere. But, as we have encountered before, the Finnish-language press used that old style font, and neither I (typing manually into Google translate) nor the ORC service can read it. I was hopeful you could provide me a translation of two brief reviews. They are as follows:

• Uusi Suometar review (E. K. = Evert Katila [fi])
• Helsingin Sanomat review (W. = name?)

For the Uusi Suometar, you could begin at "Seuraji sitten illan huippukohta ..." (i.e., skip the non-Sibelius part of the program). And for the Helsingin Sanomat, I would only need the paragraph that begins with "Musiikki-illassa eilen esitettiin ensi kerran Jean Sibeliuksen ..." (By the way, any idea who the reviewer is? All the paper provides is the initial W.). Many, many thanks for your help, if you can! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:21, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Dear friend, I wish you a very happy new year as well! Here is the bit from Uusi Suometar:

[...] Highlights of the night followed with Sibelius' new grand quartet which – the score has been printed for six months now – has been anticipated with exictement. To begin with, the quartet made a great and wonderful impact. Although most listeners might have found most of its content incomprihensible, the genious that is imprinted in it and the dazzling height the composer's imagination has sorared to could not have failed to impress everone who has heard it. Yours truly thinks this piece is the most magnificient one ever written by Siebelius. The carlity of thought and mastership of execution are equally astonishing in it. The material is manipulated by the master as easily as wax, taking the shape of musical images whether they be sparkling and upbeat or calmn and solemn. The composer is playing with form and nothing is no longer impossible for him. It is total domination of mind over matter. Probably in no other piece has Sibelius been so "airborne". The grand Adagio part evokes memories of Beethoven's last quartets and in the last, fast-paced Allegro part we find ourselves in the middle of a fantasy world in the midst of the night among playing elves and faries, thousands of sounds meeting our ears from this and that direction drawing us into the flaring whirls of their lively dance.

For the second time now I am allowed to return to the etheric and mysterious (the composer calls his quartet by the name of "Voces intimae") style and its [above-mentioned?] qualities. This time it suffices for me to simply express my joy due to this new compositional piece characteristic of the flight of imagination and mastership of form that the artist has created.

In a technical sense the quartet is almost unnaturally difficult. That is not to say that it would be outside the boundaries of "playability"; it just sets enormous requirements for the alertness and skill of performers. In light of this the school's quartet deserves honest congratulations. The performance is a remarkable accomplishment for it.^[1]

I'll get back to you with Helsingin Sanomat later. By the way, I still have subscription to its full archives, so don't hesitate to ask if you want me to check something. Cordially – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:35, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

That did not take long:

At the music night last night Jean Sibelius' newest string quartet op. 56 which the composer has given the name "Voces intimae" was premiered. The composition evoked lively attention and it undoubtedly can be counted among the most ingenious works of its kind. It is not a composition for the general public, because of how strange and atypical it is. From the short prelude, the Andante, we arritve at an energetic Vivace, from which different instruments form a most enjoyable and echoing fabric by criss-crossing beteween different images of music. The sense of echo is veritably immersive in this part as well as the Adagio which is in its benevolence and spirituality an unparallelled bit. In the Allegretto it is excellently entertaining themes that capture one's attention that at times organize fast-paced runs in intermediary sounds. I hope this fine quartet will be performed many more times so that we may have a chance to study its secrets more closely. – The composition was performed by Messrs. Rowacek, Hurstinen, Lindelöf and Bersfelt in a fairly smooth manner when we take into account its terrifying difficulty.

Mr. Sulo Hurstinen, who by the way was in the middle of action all night long, played correctly and with firm sound a few violin pieces, Lalo's romance in D minor and one of Gossec's gabots the latter of which had to be subjected to an encore due to extremely warm applause.

As the first number of the programme, Hand's string quartet op. 54 2 C major was performed. – Last night's music night was the final one of this [season].^[2]

Not 100% sure about the names of the performers. Do ask me to double check if you need them. I shall look into the identity of "W." – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:42, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Finnusertop ~ Thanks so much for your great work above ... I have been a bit busy IRL but, once I hit a Wikipedia editing patch, I cannot wait to use these translations. It's like an archeological dig, of sorts! Any ideas on W.? And no worries on the names of the performers: I have them already. Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I did not find out who W. is by Google. I know there are books that list various literary pseudonyms. I'll have to take a look at those if and when I visit a big library. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Quick facts

April songs

my story today

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Thank you for restoring Carl Nielsen! - My story today is about the Alchymic Quartet, the last DYK from last year. - The songs are about vacation. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:46, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda! Yeah, I'm glad the Nielsen infobox survived, although I'm saddened that, in its wake (and hopefully unrelated?) an editor decided to retire. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 04:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm saddened by the same thing, and hope it's only temporary. Most of those who retired because of an infobox or two - I think It was Robert le diable more than Nielsen - returned after a year or two. There was a time when people wanting an infobox were treated like aggressive invaders, but by now I think the time has come to accept that they are just the community. Why that is hard to accept for some, I fail to understand. I mentioned Nielsen on Classical music. Perhaps it was rather the trend of those discussions that made Smerus give up. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Gerda! I'll soon be adding a minimal IB to Leevi Madetoja ... fyi, for the table. But without a discussion, since (long ago) I was the editor who raised him to B-ish level. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 03:12, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! - I loved to see Marian Anderson and her story of protest against discrimination by singing on Easter Sunday 9 April 1939 on the Main page yesterday. Impressions of Easter here and music here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:40, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Gerda Arendt! Thanks for the lovely songs ... and on Anderson: serendipitously, I am working on Sibelius's haunting song Kom nu hit, död, her rendition of which from the 1930s the composer greatly admired! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 17:24, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

My story today, Messiah (Handel), was my first dip into the FA ocean, thanks to great colleagues. - a few pics added, one day missing --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:28, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

... and I added it, and a bit more - today is the 80th birthday of John Eliot Gardiner. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Aza24 ~ Hi! Could you possibly, when you have a moment, read through Water Droplets and provide it a rating on its talk page? It's quite a short article. Thanks! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:57, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, would be happy to! Should have time on Thursday do so. Aza24 (talk) 04:49, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Aza! (And welcome back.) I apologize, but I got impatient (ha!) and rated it myself as a B-class. (Not sure if I'm even permitted to rate articles I contribute to...) Anyway, as always due to your knowledge of music, eye for detail, and keen enthusiasm, your thoughts are welcome. (PS: I'm finally tackling Ödlan ... a delightful hidden gem.) Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 01:01, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Quick facts my story today ...

May songs

my story today

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Thank you for the Sibelius compositions! - I had a good story on coronation day: the Te Deum we sang that day. And the following day we sang it for the composer ;)

I heard pleasant music today - did you know a string quartet with two cellos (and no article yet in English? - I nominated Soňa Červená for GA just to give her a bit more exposure. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations to the Droplets now GA! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! I was lucky it caught Tim's eyes (and ears). A charming little piece, but a distraction from my larger plans for Sibelius's LoC and Kullervo FAs! :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 00:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Good plans! - Pentecost was full of music, and my story today is that 300 years ago today, Bach became Thomaskantor, with BWV 75, writing music history. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:29, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The article Water Droplets (Sibelius) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Water Droplets (Sibelius) for comments about the article, and Talk:Water Droplets (Sibelius)/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has not already appeared on the main page as a "Did you know" item, or as a bold link under "In the News" or in the "On This Day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear in DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On This Day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Tim riley -- Tim riley (talk) 18:41, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations on this revealing article. It certainly deserves GA.--Ipigott (talk) 05:53, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Quick facts Eight years! ...

Precious

Eight years!

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--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:26, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Good to see the Water droplets on the Main page! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

On 16 July 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Water Droplets (Sibelius), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Jean Sibelius likely wrote his first composition, Water Droplets, as a schoolboy? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Water Droplets (Sibelius). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Water Droplets (Sibelius)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Kusma (talk) 12:03, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Dear Silence. You posted a translation request to me some time ago, but I failed to respond to it quickly. Do you still need it? I am terribly sorry. I've been busy and slightly unmotivated. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Finnusertop (talk · contribs)! Sorry for the delay. But thanks for following up ... I deleted my request for translation because it grew and grew into too big of an ask. So, no matter. However, on the new article I wrote Chess, I am having a bit of trouble with translating accurately a few short prases:

1. Kansankarkelo (the liner notes to a CD recording translate this as "Revels" but that can't be right ... my guess is Frolic of the People of Dance of the People ... I'm pretty sure it occurs as the pawns dance.)
2. Kolukeittoyhdistys / Föreningen för bespisning af folkskolebarn (I translated it as Association for Feeding Elementary School Children)
3. Maisterin perikato (The Master's Legacy ???)
4. Vuoksen varrella (Along the River???)
5. Finally, help with understanding thne basic plot points of this passage: "Kansan karkelo. Talonpoikais-parit hajaantuvat. Mustat ja valkeat asemiehet vaihtavat paikkojaan. Airuet rientävät edes takaisin näyttämöllä saattaen sanoja kuningasten ja ritarien välillä. Ritarit astuvat esiin. -- Miekkatanssi. Osa esiintyvistä on siirtynyt perälle. Rivit ovat harvenneet, jälelle on jäänyt vain joku asemies, ritari ja rahvaan edustaja. Mustia seisoo vaikeiden puolella ja valkeita mustien. Hetkisen näyttää täydellinen hajaannus ja sekasorto vallitsevan. Kuninkaat ja kuningattaret astuvat esiin."

Many thanks for your help! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 15:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Dear Silence:

1. Dance of the People works nicely here.
2. That's a pretty good translation of the Swedish. The Finnish term is quite simplified. The only worry is if Elementary School comes off as a bit specific and mildly anachronistic. Perhaps simply Schoolchildren?
3. The Master's Downfall. Master here as in academic titles.
4. It's a good translation. More specifically, I think it has the connotation of a stream with strong flow, even rapids.
5. "The People's Dance. The peasant pairs disperse. Black and white armed men (pawns?) change places. The messengers (I'm not entirely sure, but given the context, they might mean the bishops, as those pieces are called messengers in Finnish) run back and forth on the stage taking messages between kings and knights (again most likely the pieces, although they are called horses in Finnish). The knights step forward. -- Dance of Swords. Some of the performers have moved back. The lines have become sparser, with only few armed men, knights, and commoners left. Black ones are standing at the whites' end and vice versa. For a moment a complete and utter chaos and confusion reign. The kings and queens take the stage.

Yours belatedly – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 17:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Hope you enjoy your break... Take care – Aza24 (talk) 18:26, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Aza24! I'm just frustrated about something WP-related. Your advice and support would be welcome, but alas, it's not something I can write about on WP. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 18:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Ah I see. Feel free to email me if I can be of any assistance Aza24 (talk) 19:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi Silence of Järvenpää. Sorry to bother you right as you return, but you've added some short form refs that don't have the required cite.

In Hymn of the Earth (Sibelius) you added "E. Klas—Ondine (ODE 754-2) 1990", "P. Järvi—Virgin Classics (7243 5 45589 2 4) 2003", and "O. Vänskä—BIS (CD-1365) 2005".

In Väinämöinen’s Song "Barnett 2006", "E. Klas—Ondine (ODE 754-2) 1990", "P. Järvi—Virgin Classics (7243 5 45589 2 4) 2003", and "O. Vänskä—BIS (CD-1565) 2006".

In Oma maa "O. Vänskä—BIS (BIS CD-1265) 2004", "P. Berglund—Warner (0190295869151) 2017", "E. Klas—Ondine (ODE 754-2) 1990", "O. Vänskä—BIS (CD-1265) 2004", and "P. Järvi—Virgin Classics (7243 5 45589 2 4) 2003".

Short form refs such as {{sfn}} are hyperlinks to full cites, could you add the required cites to Sources section of each article? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 14:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi @ActivelyDisinterested: Thanks for your careful attention to detail. I meant to have those as efn's rather than sfn's. I have made the changes for Oma maa and for the Hymn of the Earth. Holding off for now on Väinämöinen’s Song , because I clearly made an error when creating the page: it should be at Väinämöinen's Song ... guess that's what I get for copying an pasting the character's name. Problem is, I don't quite know how to fix this. Moving the page to the new target is easy enough, but then what to do with the old abandoned one? Any help would be welcome. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 14:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I went ahead and added a uc template to Väinämöinen’s Song and made the changes of the efn's to sfns. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 14:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Silence of Järvenpää. The only oneissing now is "Barnett 2006" in Väinämöinen’s Song. Should this be "Barnett 2005" Sibelius: Song of the Earth? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 15:10, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello again Silence of Järvenpää. You added "Dahlström 2007" to Impromptu (Sibelius), but only "Dahlström 2003" is defined. Is this just a typo? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 16:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes! Thank you! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:56, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

No worries, happy editting. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 16:58, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Silence of Järvenpää, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the autopatrolled user right to your account. This means that pages you create will automatically be marked as 'reviewed', and no longer appear in the new pages feed. Autopatrolled is assigned to prolific creators of articles, where those articles do not require further review, and may have been requested on your behalf by someone else. It doesn't affect how you edit; it is used only to manage the workload of new page patrollers.

Since the articles you create will no longer be systematically reviewed by other editors, it is important that you maintain the high standard you have achieved so far in all your future creations. Please also try to remember to add relevant WikiProject templates, stub tags, categories, and incoming links to them, if you aren't already in the habit; user scripts such as Rater and StubSorter can help with this. As you have already shown that you have a strong grasp of Wikipedia's core content policies, you might also consider volunteering to become a new page patroller yourself, helping to uphold the project's standards and encourage other good faith article writers.

Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:15, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@The Night Watch and Ganesha811: ~ Thank you for this recognition! Warmly, <span style="font-variant:small-::

Quick facts my story today ...

November songs

my story today

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Congratulations. - Thank you for improving the Sibelius compositions! - Today: in memoriam Jerome Kohl who said (In Freundschaft): "and I hope that they have met again in the beyond and are making joyous music together" --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

So glad you're working on the wonderful Langgaard tone poem. Have you seen this delightful clip? Aza24 (talk) 08:12, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, @Aza24:! Welcome home ... haha. Yes, I was listening to the Langgaard (I have both recordings) and admiring his genius and excess, when I looked up the Wikipedia article and was put off by its quality. I started tackling it, only to realize quickly that the score is far too complex for me to make rhyme or reason of! I'm not even sure I got the instrumentation completely correct. Funny, because I was thinking of asking you for a collaboration on it ... and thanks for the video! New to me, indeed.

I've been doing a lot here since you've been gone ... mainly trying to clear out my backlogs in the various sandboxes. Primarily, I worked on the Sibelius concertante works (sans the Violin Concerto), as well as his works for chorus and orchestra (cantatas, orchestral songs, melodrama, and an abandoned oratorio). Each needs a lot more love, but at least several new articles now exist. (My style of late, for better or worse, is to jump from article to article as inspiration hits me.) I also got a copy via ILL of Dahlström's 2003 magnum opus, which I've been using to systematically source premiere dates, publisher info, first recordings, and instrumentation. I realized that I just couldn't get the Sibelius LoC up to FL without Dahlström! But that, too, is mired now in the muds of low interest / feelings of inadequacy ... though it will be my masterpiece here, someday!

I've also been thinking a lot about Grieg. As we've discussed, we've got to do something. I was thinking aiming for his death day anniversary in 2027 ... I am thinking on working on his compositions pages (you know I don't trust myself to write bios), but I want to get my Sibelius goals met first: LoC FL and some more creations and expansions up to Start or C classes. Catch me up! What are you up to now that you're back? ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Also: Check out my fancy new Sibelius t.b.d. table! :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 20:19, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Nice table... very satisfying to scroll through haha. Glad to here you're getting through your old sandboxes. I think I'm going to switch my focus to something similar: finishing articles I put aside a while back, hopefully first saving Concerto delle donne at FAR and then working on Orlando Gibbons (the first reason I came to WP!). I want to work on Johannes Gutenberg further, but since I initially knew so little on the topic, the research takes a lot longer than usual! Eventually, I want to get back to some music theory topics... general articles like Clef and Scale (music) get hundreds of thousands of annual views, but are usually in an abysmal (and often very sparsely sourced) state. I guess the damage is bad enough that the subreddit for Music theory says "Please know that Wikipedia and ChatGPT are especially bad for music theory topics. Our FAQs should answer your questions far more reliably"! Sounds like a call to action to me... (although being equalized to ChatGPT is bad enough).

The loc is looking really nice, but I think you may be asking too much of yourself (and the reader!). The sections on different genres are really nice, but may be too much info for what is fundamentally supposed to be a list of compositions, you know? Perhaps you might move much of the information to an article like the Music of Sibelius. But then, I don't want to create more work for you, and as we already discussed, there is no precedent for LOC FLs. Don't feel any shame if you need to let it sit for a bit—I'm sure you'll regain interest in it later.

I'm happy to give a go at Grieg's bio once we get closer to the death date. Hopefully we'll both have more old projects done by then! – Aza24 (talk) 23:03, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Aza24: ~ A quick question: how does one rename a category? "Category:Symphonic poems by Jean Sibelius" really ought to be "Category:Tone poems by Jean Sibelius" ... like Richard Strauss, this was his preferred nomenclature. Thanks! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 21:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

That's typically done at Categories for discussion, see CFD – How to use CfD. Your rationale seems solid. Just explain that the majority of Sibelius literature uses "Tone poem" and point out that Category:Tone poems by Richard Strauss exists. Aza24 (talk) 01:48, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

@Aza24: ~ Thanks Aza!! Happy editing. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 01:05, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Aza24:: Hi! Looks like the proposal was archived without anyone else commenting ... but the symphonic poems page was not moved to tone poems. Any suggestions? Thanks! ~ Silence of Järvenpää 00:46, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm sure you've seen this by now, but it looks like your proposal was simply accepted since there was no opposition. Aza24 (talk) 06:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Quick facts

December: story · music · places

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Today, I have a special story to tell, of the works of a musician born 300 years ago. - I wish you a good festive season and a peaceful New Year! -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:16, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of compositions by Jean Sibelius, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Albert Becker.

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An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Nightride and Sunrise, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page New Philharmonia Orchestra.

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Hi Silence of Järvenpää. You've used references to "Barnett 2004" and "Okkonen 1990" in My Own Land, but neither are defined in the article. There is a "Barnett 2005" so I don't know if that's just a typo, but "Okkonen 1990" is missing completely. Could you add the missing cites or let me know what works these refer to? -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 21:43, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

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(t · c) buidhe 02:39, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

@Aza24: Hi, Aza! I have been at work on the Sibelius art songs, but as usual, I cannot determine the difference between major and minor identical key signatures. Given your expertise, I was hoping you could help complete the table at Six Songs, Op. 36 (Sibelius) for me. The score is available via IMSLP. Thanks! (Will also soon make tables for Op. 13, Op. 17, Op. 37, and Op.38). Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 04:38, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reaching out, will plan to look later this week. From a glance, it appears the first three are A minor, A minor and A Major. First one is a bit quirky, but seems to cadence on A minor rather strongly at the end, not to mention a surplus of A minor's leading tone. Aza24 (talk) 20:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

In order, as best I can tell (the 1st, 4th & 5th ones are not as clear): A minor, A minor, A major, G-flat major, E minor, B-flat major.

Speaking of IMSLP, did I ever tell you I've started helping out over there occasionally? I'll I've done of note so far is create this List of works by Hildegard, which Wikipedia doesn't have yet either (add it to the list!). How are you doing this day-light savings day? Aza24 (talk) 19:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Aza24:! Thanks for your help on this. I will make the changes you suggested. If you're eventually up to it, it would moreover be a big help if you could assist me with the keys for the songs that comprise other Sibelius song collections. As you may have noticed, I made pages for the other "important" groups (kind of like I did for his piano and chamber works, I'm not going to make an article page for every opus number ... just the notable ones), as well as a few stand-alones:

• Five Songs, Op. 37 (Sibelius)
• Five Songs, Op. 38 (Sibelius), as well as an article for "Höstkväll"
• Two Songs, Op. 35 (Sibelius)
• Seven Runeberg Songs, Op. 13
• Seven Songs, Op. 17 (Sibelius)
• Six Songs, Op. 50 (Sibelius)
• Six Runeberg Songs, Op. 90
• "Arioso", Op. 3
• "Serenad", JS 168

With the exception of JS 168, each has scores available on IMSLP that I linked to in the article. For a few of these, I still have to make the table. It strikes me that this will be good practice for me/us if we ever get on with Grieg ... lots of songs!!

Thanks for asking how things are going ... okay, is my answer. On Spring Break, but bogged down in grading exams. Hopefully will be finished with them today and can, thus, take a day off (which means "day on" for Wikipedia). My big ambition is to finally get the Sibelius LoC completed. I've been working on trimming the footnotes, now that, with a lot of new articles created, those details can migrate to their designated articles. The table is still missing some random JS numbers, and I need to make sure I fill those in. I do have something about this LoC that I have wanted your studied opinion on: to what extent is having a column with fist edition publisher information a good or poor idea? On the one hand, I see several positives:

• Sibelius worked with many different publishers, and this historical detail is interesting since, in most cases, B&H and Hansen ended up gobbling up the independent publishers as they failed here and there. (So, the first publisher does often not equal the modern era publisher.)
• This allows a reader to sort by publisher, which means, e.g., one can see visually Sibelius's transition from Helsinki publishers to Lienau to B&H to Hansen.

On the other hand, a big negative is:

• It's going to be hard for me to fill in a large handful of cells, because the details are (to my eyes) confusing ... only in Dahlström, which is tediously written and is also in German.
• Dahlström's book is from 2003 and thus is deprecated: many unpublished works have now been published (or will soon be) by the JSW critical edition.

Would a compromise position be to cut the column but move publishing information that is clear/east to understand into the footnotes?

Really cool to hear that you work also over at IMSLP! Although, we need you over here at Wikipedia, and so as an interested party of the latter, I must try to encourage you to come back here! WP's classical music coverage needs you! Actually, I have no idea how IMSLP works ... i.e., how it does not violate copyright. But I am happy to use it when needed, because it's often the only way I can obtain scores.

And how have you been, otherwise? Warmly, ~ Silence of Järvenpää 16:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

@Aza24: Observed something a short while ago ... I'll just say cryptically: Do know that you're appreciated! :) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 00:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey, sorry for the late response. Thanks for saying that—unfortunately the ghost of Beethoven often overtakes me for hasty reactions :)

I would say that publisher info feels like an item for individual pages, rather than the comp list. There's a good chance that I am biased due to my unfamiliarity with seeing such information in comp tables of WP or Grove, but perhaps that absence is notable in itself. In any case, I'd be hesitant to add another column to what seems to be a rather full table!

I'm happy to help with further key identification—I'll add it to my list.

IMSLP is a rather strange place to work; there's not much of a tight-knit community, other than what seems to be occasional rapport between a handful of admins. My idea was to slowly make comp lists for medieval composers on WP & IMSLP side by side. Ideally, I want to upload all of the fragments of Greek music somehow; since there are only ~30 (see here), it would be awesome to have every Ancient Greek piece in existence easily available & accessible. I'm not sure how I'd do this though (my own transcriptions? though they would have to be pretty much reproductions of published sources, which feels like a copyright gray-area). I'll have to make a list of them for WP eventually. Aza24 (talk) 00:48, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind, I used your name formatting/time from the review at Talk:The Maiden in the Tower/GA1 for Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Proposal: Add the Nominator's Name to GAN Pages! Sorry if it gave you a ping. Aza24 (talk) 05:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

@Aza24: Hey! Oh, it made me laugh ... I internalized it as a plea from you (even though it was nothing of the sort) to get me moving on my many GAN and FAN projects! ;D ~ Silence of Järvenpää 03:26, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Your edit of 19:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC) of List of compositions by Jean Sibelius introduced {{sort}} templates wrapping {{Collapsible list}} templates. Unfortunately, this and subsequent edits of this type introduced 75 div-span-flip lint errors (more than the 21 shown). The issue is that block level markup, such as <div>...</div>, can wrap inline markup, such as <span>...</span>, but not vice versa. {{sort}} wraps its argument with <span>...</span>, and the output of {{Collapsible list}} is block-level. If sort templates are needed, something has to be different in order to avoid these lint errors. —Anomalocaris (talk) 09:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jonesey95 and Anomalocaris: Thank you to you both for catching my massive error. My apologies for creating work for you. As you can see, I'm perhaps not the best coder. I do need a way to sort the titles with collapsible lists, because right now they for some reason congregate in the S range. I learn best via demonstration, so any help would be much appreciated. As for repairing my mistake, I see Jonesey95 reverted back to the pre-link error version. The problem is that this also reverts hours of work I did double checking sources ... too much to redo, and so I think I'd rather manually go in an fix the collapsible list issues myself. Can we restore the bad version? ~ Silence of Järvenpää 19:37, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I think you can restore the bad version if you separate the sort template from the collapsible lists. Something like {{Sort|foo}}{{Collapsible list|....}}. Don't wrap the big list template in the Sort template. Do it once for an unusual term that is not currently sorting correctly, then see if it sorts correctly. If so, fix the rest of them. Ping me again if that doesn't work or make sense. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Hi! Thanks for the suggestion. It doesn't appear to work ... see entry Kullervo at the very top of the table. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 19:47, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Jonesey95 reverted to the version of 00:57, 19 April 2024 (UTC) with edit summary "rv to last version without syntax errors. Template:sort cannot wrap a div-based template like collapsible list. Consider using data-sort-value as indicated by the template:sort documentation." This is strange, because your very next version merely changed a page number from 165 to 164, which had no effect on syntax errors, lint errors, or any other type of error except page number errors. I was tempted to revert to the version of 19:51, 20 April 2024 (UTC), but decided to message you here instead.

I can't begin to advise, because I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. The version of 19:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC), just before you inserted the sort templates, and the version of 19:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC) right after that, seem to sort in the exact same way. —Anomalocaris (talk) 20:50, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The current version has no sort template around the "Kullervo" collapsible list, but when I sort on "Title", that row sorts between "Kristillisissa nuorisojuhlissa" and "Kullervon valitus", which looks correct to me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:58, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Thanks! That's because I went through and manually deleted the 75 sort templates on collapsible lists. Which I click to sort by title, however, Kullervo does not land between the two you mentioned, but rather is grouped will all other compositions with collapsible lists ... it lands between King Christian and Kyllikki, and all of these are in the S range of the alphabetized table. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:08, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Strange. It was working for me. Anyway, this format is the recommended table sorting format. If you apply it carefully (note the pipe before and after the "data-sort-value"), it should work. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:22, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Jonesey95: Ah! Yes, that works ... thank you for the demonstration. I just applied this format through the first batch, and it sorts well. ~ Silence of Järvenpää 23:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

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On the Main page today Jean Sibelius on his birthday. I heard Beethoven's Fifth from the opening of Notre-Dame de Paris. We sang in choirs today. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to the (new) Perplexities after Escher. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Listen today to Beethoven's 3rd cello sonata, on his birthday - it was a hook in the 2020 DYK set when his 250th birthday was remembered. I picked a recording with Antônio Meneses, because he was on my sad list this year, and I was in Brazil (see places), and I love his playing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:05, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

I come to fix the cellist's name, with a 10-years-old DYK and new pics - look for red birds --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:17, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Always precious

Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:03, 27 June 2025 (UTC)

Hello! A note to thank you for your article Compositions for brass septet by Jean Sibelius. I'm a brass player and wasn't aware of Sibelius's compositions for this type of ensemble. It's a fascinating read, excellently put together, and clearly written by someone with passion. Msuxg (talk) 09:01, 20 July 2025 (UTC)

@Msuxg: ~ Thank you so much for your kind, thoughtful message. I'm so glad to learn that you have discovered Sibelius's brass septet music. As a former trombone player in school, these tunes make me so very happy when I listen to them. His oeuvre has so many hidden gems ... may I also suggest my favorite Sibelius 'deep cut'? Songs for Mixed Chorus from the 1897 Promotional Cantata 13:40, 19 September 2025 (UTC) ~ Silence of Järvenpää 13:40, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

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Many thanks for the Discography section at the Lemminkäinen Suite article - to put the icing on the cake, can you add a guide to the reference numbers (1-4) against conductor and orchestra(?) E.g. entry 23: Jukka-Pekka Saraste (2) Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra (3) - what do the (2) & (3) denote? thanks in anticipation! Best wishes, - Yadsalohcin (talk) 12:28, 8 November 2025 (UTC)

@Silence of Järvenpää have I got it right: Where a conductor or orchestra has recorded the suite more than once, a number has been added (in brackets) to help distinguish the recordings and clarify the results of sorting the list. (?) - perhaps there's a better way to put it? thanks again - Yadsalohcin (talk) 00:32, 10 November 2025 (UTC)