Talk:Kākāpō

Can someone upload to wikipedia audio/video file of kakapo? thanking you in advance, 88.153.140.32 13:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that any such free material exists. There are plenty of videos of the Kakapo around, but they're all non-free, and thus unusable for this article. function msikma(const U, T : Float) : Float { to my page. } ; 20:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

actually, i've recently published recordings of a booming kakapo on my blog, and i'm willing to put them under a free license. the problem is that the files are in mp3-format, and converting them directly to .ogg will reduce quality (right?). it's going to take some time to edit and re-encode from the original, but it's on my to-do-list. --Mnolf 18:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Technically, doing conversion from one lossy format to another will always cause the loss of quality. But the loss will be a negligible amount, if you simply use the appropriate bitrate. I'm willing to do it for you if you mail the MP3 to me, you can send it to michiel@thingmajig.org if you want me to. function msikma(const U, T : Float) : Float { to my page. } ; 09:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

email was sent. have fun :) and thanks. --Mnolf 13:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking the sentences on classification may be better in a section down the page than on the lead (about own genus etc.) and expanded a bit later. I'm not sure they add anything to the lead as such. Cas Liber 10:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I see you've moved them down. They do seem to be better off down there than in the lead. —msikma (user, talk) 06:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, on second thought, it does seem like the section this has created is too small. I think that this should be moved back to the lead unless the "classification" section can be increased in size with important information. It current seems like it's just used to contain some minor remarks. —msikma (user, talk) 19:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm working on it - the molecular stuff is interesting and the info is needed to balance the article which otherwise is loaded towards conservation (not surprising really given the history). Maybe a bit large to go back in the lead.Cas Liber 20:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The molecular stuff is unfortunately contradicted by another (earlier) molecular paper (Miyaki et al, see here). More severely, the 2005 scenario is virtually prohibited by the fossil record. Were the spindlin phylogeny true, one would have to assume that all the traits that distinguish living parrots from e.g. the Pseudasturidae (see doi:10.1046/j.1096-3642.2002.00042.x) in shirt, the parrot morphotype - evolved twice (at least) identically, that Dyck texture was present in all psittaciform ancestors 80+ mya or developed in even more lineages independently but not in the cockatoos, etc. The "review" of the fossil record is probably the lowest point of the 2005 paper (which is otherwise nice); see doi:10.1080/08912960600641224. All the bare facts therein were available one year earlier too; not Mayr & Daniels 1998 but Mayr 2002 (see DOI above) would have been the paper to consider, and that would have shown that the Fig.7 in the 2005 paper is, as far as anyone can currently tell, utter fiction. Dysmorodrepanis 05:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

In attempt to save this page from de-featured, I have trimmed the section quite markedly. Disscussion is here: Wikipedia:Featured article review/Kakapo. — Indon (reply) — 16:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Currently, the Kakapo is said to be in the family Psittacidae, and the subfamily Psittacinae. I'm currently reading through "A parrot apart: the natural history of the kakapo (Strigops habroptilus), and the context of its conservation management", and its chapter on taxonomy states that it is in the subfamily Strigopinae. Verbatim, "[...] but Smith (1975) used anatomical, morphological and ethological characters to place it in the endemic New Zealand subfamily Strigopinae, which has usually been followed since (Turbott 1990)." It then goes to explain the similarities between the Kea and the Kaka, and does not actually state the Psittacinae subfamily. I'm wondering about this: at the very least, it seems that a bit more discussion on the taxonomic groups this bird belongs to would be well-placed. —msikma (user, talk) 06:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is the case with alot of birds where the new taxonomic stuff shows a marked difference with current accepted practice. Best to leave a note on WP Birds and discuss it there. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's a good idea since I'm confused now and there don't seem to be too many people actively monitoring this article anymore. I'll try there. Thanks! —msikma (user, talk) 19:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Currently there're two scientific name using right now, one is from BirdLife & IUCN:Strigops habroptila, and the other one is widely used everywhere even in our article:Strigops habroptilus, which one is correct ?--Lokionly (talk) 01:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

According to ITIS Strigops habroptila is correct. Something to do with the gender of Strigops. Explained here. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The only mention of the birds' lifespan is "Because Kakapo are quite long-lived, they tend to have an adolescence before beginning breeding." But how long-lived are they??

(doesn't know how to type a whistling sound) According to BirdLife International's Rare Birds Yearbook, 90 on average, with the maximum estimated at 120. I'll put it on in. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 01:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Seems awfully generous, considering that a span of 90–120 years would make it the world's longest-living bird! AnAge and ADW have more coservative estimates of up to 60 years. Yet perhaps the high estimate isn't altogether unreasonable: many parrots are long-lived and larger species tend to live longer than smaller ones – and Kakapo is the world's largest parrot. One must wonder, though, how justified or accurate that estimate can really be. The oldest undisputed age for a bird was 78+ years for an Andean Condor named Kuzya of the Moscow Zoo (arrived with adult plumage in 1892, died in 1964), also, Thaao (b. 1930) of Connecticut's Beardsley Zoo was still alive at at least 77. Guinness accepts a claim of an 80-year-old Sulphur-crested Cockatoo named Cocky (d. 1982 at the London Zoo), but the 24 first years of its life are unaccounted for. The oldest age for a parrot featured in AnAge (as far as I know) was 65.8 years for a captive Moluccan Cockatoo. And Charlie is simply a fraud. --Anshelm '77 (talk) 21:11, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi - I'm new to Wikipedia so my apologies if I get anything wrong! I work for the Department of Conservation in New Zealand, and work closely with the Kakapo Recovery Team. I also manage our social media presence, a lot of which is focussed on Sirocco, the kakapo featured in Last Chance to See.

I added a brief paragraph to the Wikipedia kakapo article, as I often get messages from people asking why Sirocco isn't mentioned. The programme is still being shown around the world, so we'll get bursts of people signing up to Sirocco's Facebook page from, most recently for example, Iceland then Norway.

My paragraph was removed, but I'm not really sure why? I've seen the discussion earlier on this page about whether or not Sirocco should be mentioned, and there's a suggestion that 'internet fame' isn't enough (which is a fair point). However, Sirocco is starting to be recognised around the world through the TV programme, and people want to find out more about him. The fact that he was named 'Official Spokesbird for Conservation' by NZ Prime Minister John Key earlier this year may also be something worth mentioning? Some may see it as a joke, but the role has brought a lot more people closer to the plight of the kakapo, and endangered species in general.

My main point though is that people want to find out more about Sirocco, and ask me why he's not on Wikipedia. Personally I thought I was justified in adding one paragraph because of this - I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts!

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris Pitt (talk • contribs) 21:49, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I argued above that such a trivial incident was not appropriate to include in the article, but I am no longer sure of that. If the incident is still receiving coverage a year later, as shown through signups to his Facebook page, and if this is now one of the most widely known portrayals of kakapo, then it should be covered in the article.-gadfium 22:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Are there third party sources still covering it? Active Banana (^bananaphone 20:17, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Would Sirocco warrant a separate article rather than risk adding what is in effect an "In popular culture" section to this article? Kahuroa (talk) 20:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I am unsure about the best procedure: the recent attempt to add information about Siroco is clearly very different from the rash of excited commentary when the incident first occurred, yet it is rarely helpful to include what is essentially trivia in a science article. In particular, the link http://www.facebook.com/siroccokakapo is difficult because it does not satisfy the external link guidelines, and it is not a reliable source and so cannot be used as a reference for information added to the article. The article probably needs a little restructuring with the long "The conservation of the Kakapo..." paragraph in the lead being replaced by a much shorter summary, with the content from the existing paragraph moved to a new section under "Conservation" (perhaps 4.5 "Public recognition"). I would be happier with a brief statement about Siroco if it were not in the lead of the article. The idea of making a separate article would be ideal if there is sufficient sourced material to satisfy the notability requirement. Perhaps Chris Pitt would like to comment on the new article idea (which would be mentioned in this article under "See also"). The Facebook link would be suitable on an article dedicated to Siroco, but the article would have to follow normal encyclopedic guidelines (it couldn't be chatty in the style of the Facebook page). Johnuniq (talk) 22:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Sirocco's page at the Kakapo Recovery Programme website would be usable I think. Kahuroa (talk) 00:57, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone for their comments...it's amazing what goes on behind the scenes of Wikipedia, who would have thought! So - it looks like two options are emerging - either re-instating a paragraph or so about Sirocco in the main article, but in a new section; or creating a new page dedicated to Sirocco. I'm happy to do either of those - I'll leave this for a couple of days to allow other thoughts/preferences, then will get on with it! Many thanks. Chris Pitt (talk) 04:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

If you choose a new article, I suggest starting with a list of reliable sources that you could use. Post that list somewhere (perhaps here, or on your talk page, and add a link here to your talk page, like this example). That is, do not bother with an article draft until you let a couple of experienced editors comment on the sources – that would save a lot of trouble, because without sources acceptable by Wikipedia standards any new article would be deleted. Johnuniq (talk) 06:16, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi - thanks again for the advice. Okay, for the article on Sirocco, I'd base the bulk of the information on Sirocco's 'biography' on the Kakapo Recovery Team website, which is the authority on all things kakapo: Kakapo Recovery Team website. There are various news sites which have covered Sirocco's 'rise to fame', and these could be added as links. For example the London newspaper Metro covered Sirocco's appointment as official Spokesbird to the NZ Government Sirocco as Spokesbird Metro; plus there's a strong and quite touching piece about Sirocco, and his 'rock star' appearance at Auckland Zoo in 2009 on the respected NZ news magazine programme Campbell Live: Sirocco on Campbell Live. There are other links I could use on a similar theme, but I think these cover the basic details both about Sirocco himself, and his 'fame'. I'd welcome feedback on these suggestions before I attempt to write the article! Thanks again, Chris Pitt (talk) 01:34, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

They look fine, especially as you are basing the article on a reliable source. A couple of others to consider as links (there's no shortage) include Stuff and DOC's Conservation Blog Kahuroa (talk) 02:03, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it looks good. If you want to take it slowly (probably a good idea), you could start a draft in your userspace (for example, click this redlink User:Chris Pitt/Sirocco the Kakapo and enter some text, preview and save). When ready, the page should be moved (not copied) into article space (if wanted, ask for help). I don't think you need to be told that the problem will be keeping enthusiastic gossip out of the page, but there is no need to be overly coy in describing the incident. To be kept, the article will have to satisfy notability. The best procedure is to add information from several different sources (but not all describing the same thing); there will need to be more coverage than just the mating incident (and it would be interesting if you could find a reliable source offering explanations for that incident). Johnuniq (talk) 03:08, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi all - okay, the page is written! I've moved it, and it's now here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirocco_the_Kakapo. I checked my first draft and received advice about putting more references in, and I've done that. Hopefully now it's in shape! Any thoughts will be welcome; also, when/how does the page become visible in the Wikipedia (and external) search engines? Do I need to do something? Many thanks as ever, Chris Pitt (talk) 03:07, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. I added some categories, and linked to it from a few other articles. You can use Special:WhatLinksHere/Sirocco (Kakapo) to see links. You might also be interested in the number of page views, but it will take a few days before the tallies show up.

This would probably qualify for an entry in the Did you know section of the front page. Could someone more experienced than me in making such nominations please consider this.-gadfium 07:33, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I've nominated it here. --Avenue (talk) 01:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

As a regular with DYKs, I can tell you that it's an excellent contribution for that page. But technically, the nomination has been left too late (it needs to be nominated within 5 days of an article appearing in mainspace, and it's been 7). Technically, it should have been nominated under the heading 22 October, and not 28 October (for future reference). A way out of this is the additional rule D9. I'll comment on DYK and bring it to other editor's attention, as the additional rules aren't widely known. Schwede66 02:23, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

This has already been sorted out on the DYK page, but briefly, it was not too late because it was only moved from userspace to mainspace on 28 October. (See additional rule D8.) --Avenue (talk) 23:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Great; the article is about to go onto the homepage and Sirocco is the lead hook. As it's a rather interesting hook, and given that the lead hook is accompanied by a photo, it's almost a given that it will attract sufficient views (i.e. over 5,000) to be added to the DYK statistics page. Schwede66 18:36, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

It's scheduled to go live at midnight UK time, or 8pm in New York, and will only be up for six hours, so the timing might not be ideal for lots of views. I guess we'll see. --Avenue (talk) 03:50, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

And in case you wonder, that's 1 pm to 7 pm New Zealand time on Sunday. Schwede66 04:35, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

It gathered over 10,000 views yesterday, compared to around 30 in each of the preceding days - not bad. I've added it to the DYK stats page. --Avenue (talk) 00:15, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm wondering whether Kakapo is the right name for this article. Shouldn't it be Kākāpō, according to the New Zealand naming convention for Māori words? Schwede66 05:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

No. Macrons might be appropriate if the thing was known by its English name and we were giving it its Maori name as well, (for example the The New Zealand Pigeon or kererū ) but the widespread English name for the species is Kakapo, not Kākāpō. I fully support using Maori words in English (particularly when the words are nicer than the English words, which they often are for birds) and the promotion of te reo, but WikiProject New Zealand's insistence that Maori loanwords keep macrons seems inconsistent with general usage in NZ. Also Wikiproject Birds avoids any diacritical marks (following the convention set by the IOC world bird list) except in the case of patronyms (example Böhm's Bee-eater). Sabine's Sunbird talk 06:15, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there are conflicting guidelines at play here. I think the cited sources predominantly omit macrons, which is another factor supporting that approach, although DoC now seems to prefer macrons. --Avenue (talk) 14:55, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The position has changed greatly since 2010, and macrons are now used widely. The NZ Geographic Board has applied macrons to more than 300 placenames. I see that macron policy in Wikipedia is a considerable issue in itself. --Hugh7 (talk) 08:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Yes, high time this was moved to Kākāpō. Common usage has shifted. The Guardian is using the macronised form . See also Stuff ; RNZ ; the Natural History Museum, London ; and The New Zealand Herald for some other recent examples. Paora (talk) 00:45, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Paora, we now have an "evidence template" developed by Giantflightlessbirds. Shall we start a move request? Schwede66 02:23, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

I would certainly support that. The template is here.—Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 02:36, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Who cares what the Guardian is doing? I actually looked this up because of the Guardian. There are no such accents in English. 100.34.46.136 (talk) 14:31, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Isn't this article supposed to be in English?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kakapo

There are no such marks in English. 100.34.46.136 (talk) 14:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

There are plenty of English terms with diacritical marks, such as many loanwords in New Zealand English. --Canley (talk) 04:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Assuming there are no other topics with the same name, the diacritics are rarely used BilledMammal (talk) 10:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The article's in New Zealand English, which regularly uses macrons on Māori loanwords, as established in the discussion below, in which it was established kākāpō was the common spelling in reliable sources. That discussion is resolved, I believe.—Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 10:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

It's true that the Greek word ops is feminine, so one should expect Strigops habroptila.

But the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature doesn't care:

30.1.4.3. A compound genus-group name ending in -ops is to be treated as masculine, regardless of its derivation or of its treatment by its author.

*shrug* Strigops habroptilus it is, then (I'll go change it), and Triceratops horridus stays as well.

David Marjanović (talk) 21:11, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Done. I hope someone can fix Wikimedia Commons and Wikispecies as well without disrupting all links. David Marjanović (talk) 21:17, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Edited two typos in my original comment. David Marjanović (talk) 17:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I noticed this article about the kakapo tapeworm. I was wondering whether there ought to be a mention of it in the article. Ambrosia10 (talk) 18:06, 3 May 2016 (UTC)