Talk:Marmalade

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July 4, 2025Good article nomineeNot listed
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GA review

Passed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:50, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Marmalade/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominater: Floating Orb (talk · contribs) 02:21, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 02:28, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Hello @Chiswick Chap! I look forward to working with you in this nomination. Floating Orb (talk) 02:32, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Comments

Firstly, much good work has been done on the article since the last GA, and the article is now more defensible.

  • Lead: asserts that marmalade is citrus, then backtracks to other fruits. Body of article similarly hovers and havers between the two, with diverging statements in 'Origins', 'International naming usage', and 'Creation and recipe' (to name but three). A tidier and less confusing presentation is needed in both lead and body. Since this is English Wikipedia, I suggest you focus on English usage, confining non-English-language usage to 'Etymology'.
Fixed. I think I did so. Floating Orb (talk) 19:39, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • "It also has been made from lemons, limes, grapefruits, clementines, kumquats, and other kinds of oranges." - basically, any citrus fruit at all... suggest rewrite without a lengthy list, e.g. "but other citrus fruits such as lemons and limes can also be used."
Fixed. Floating Orb (talk) 17:12, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • "added additional" - delete "additional".
Fixed. Floating Orb (talk) 17:12, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'Origins': perhaps the 'Legend' (about Dundee) belongs in 'Etymology', as a single paragraph.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'Early versions': What is "yuja"? What is "cheong"? When was this first made? What is the connection to marmalade, if any? The way it's placed with the heading 'Early versions' makes it look as if it's ancestral, but this is not stated in the text. Needs a rethink. It may be that the material does not belong here at all, or if there is a connection, that this is stated. Similarly, the 'early' claim needs a date and source.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 20:45, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'Time changes' is a curious and more or less unparseable heading. I suggest that the whole section be reorganised as a history, in chronological order, with reliably-sourced dates.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'Etymology' - needs slight reorg. If the idea is to say A comes from B, which comes from C, etc., then by all means use reverse chronology here but do it systematically. A then = English, B = French, C = Portuguese, D = Latin, and E = Greek. ("It also comes from the Latin..." doesn't work.)
Fixed. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • Suggest 'Etymology' be divided into 'Actual' and 'Folk' subsections. The latter can contain the "Marie est malade" nonsense and the Dundee legend.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • The 'International naming usage' is not part of 'Etymology', except for the small bit on Middle French. The rest of it is either off-topic or belongs in 'Origins' as already mentioned in my comment on the lead section.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'European regulations' starts "Today," and contains "There is new draft" which are hostages to time and fortune. Please reword using dates.
Fixed. Floating Orb (talk) 20:46, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'Legal definitions' has 3 subsections, of which the last two are very short (one sentence each). Suggest all are merged.
Done. I merged the U.S. and EU ones. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • 'In popular culture' similarly has three subsections, of which two are short and titled for individual books. Since these are just examples, suggest we remove all three subheadings; merge the short paragraphs of 'Paddington Bear'; move the image to the top of the chapter; and make the image |upright.
Done. I did it a little differently though. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
OK. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:37, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
I was thinking that they should still have some subheadings. Paddington is the largest so he should get his own. The other ones can be merged into one. Floating Orb (talk) 19:38, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
OK. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:48, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • Please remove the 'Food portal' from the reference list, so the list can format itself naturally into columns. Personally I'd ditch the portal as not helpful to the article, but if you want it then put it in 'Further reading'.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • You have annotated one of four items in 'See also'. Suggest you annotate the other three in the same style. You might like to use Template:Annotated link for all four links.
Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Is it good? Floating Orb (talk) 20:37, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Images

  • All images are on Commons and are plausibly licensed.
  • "Marmalade spread on toast" looks like untoasted bread. Since toast is the archetypal thing here, it would be better to find an image which actually looks like English toast. That is traditionally a loaf made in a rectangular tin, or a (white) factory-sliced bread.
It's hard to find a good image. Do you have a way I could find it? Floating Orb (talk) 17:27, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Then we're best without; we can place an Image request on the talk page. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:03, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Okay. Do you have any free image site I could use? Floating Orb (talk) 19:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
No, I use Commons, and Google searches for CC-by-SA just as you do. Or we can ask Wikipedia editors to contribute. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:11, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
What about this picture from 2006? Floating Orb (talk) 19:14, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
This picture used to be used. Floating Orb (talk) 19:15, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
It's workable if not wonderful. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:28, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Okay. Floating Orb (talk) 19:33, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
I guess I will put it. Floating Orb (talk) 19:33, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
  • I suggest you add a page image containing a marmalade recipe from Mary Kettilby's 1714 cookery book. The whole book is available free on Archive.org. The title page of the book is not nearly so useful an image for this article.
I have a picture of the book from the link you gave me but I don't know which license it is under. It says it is "Public Domain Mark 1.0 Universal", but which should I pick for Wikimedia Commons to upload it? Floating Orb (talk) 17:27, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
{{PD-old-100}} is sufficient. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:05, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Okay thank you. Floating Orb (talk) 19:09, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Uploaded this picture. Floating Orb (talk) 19:24, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
Super. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:28, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Sources

  • [8] needs |trans-title= with translation.
  • [38] is not by Mr M. R. Intellect! Please use |author= in place of last, first.
  • Spot-checks:
[20] ok.
[30] ok.
[32] ok.
[40] doesn't mention marmalade, seems to be the wrong regs page.
[50] ok, but please spell out what JASNA is in the ref.

Summary

  • The 'Comments' above require a rework of much of the text. I suggest you implement those and I then take another look before checking the sources. Chiswick Chap (talk) 03:10, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
    Okay. I am starting to make changes. Floating Orb (talk) 03:37, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
    Please reply to each item as you go along. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:15, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
    Done. Floating Orb (talk) 17:26, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
    I still have a little more to do. Floating Orb (talk) 17:26, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
    Do you think it is good now. I will make a follow-up changes section below. Floating Orb (talk) 20:38, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

Second pass

Did I take into consideration all of the comments section? Floating Orb (talk) 20:39, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

The 'International alternate name meanings' section is basically off-topic for English Wikipedia (not to mention that we are not a dictionary). We'll be better off without the section.
The 'Early versions' section within 'Origins' effectively implies that yuja-cheong is an ancestor of Western marmalade, but there is no evidence for any connection, so this feels like WP:OR. Let's remove it. And I'm not sure about "Yahoo Life" or "Daily meal" as sources either.
The 'Rare ingredients' section does not belong in 'Origins'. I suggest we lose the heading and merge the text at the end of 'Fruit ingredients'.
Let's lose the two sub-headings under 'Folk', the paragraphs are not long and the emphasis is over-heavy.
I've made a few small edits to the text.
We'll have to lose the sub-sub-headings below 'Major companies'. The companies are sufficiently named and linked in the text, and the sub-sub-sections are very short, so we'd best avoid the charge of WP:UNDUE or even of promotion.
Not sure the current sub-headings under 'Legal definitions' work, as folks will wonder why we're promoting Canada while lumping everyone else together. Best we lose the two sub-headings; each paragraph identifies its home.

That's about it. If these changes are made, I'll pass the article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:28, 8 July 2025 (UTC)

Done. Floating Orb (talk) 16:42, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
Is it ready now? Floating Orb (talk) 16:43, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Launchballer talk 22:19, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

(
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Marmalade on bread.
Marmalade on bread.
  • Source: Harland, John, ed. (1858). The House and Farm Accounts of the Shuttleworths of Gawthorpe Hall, in the county of Lancaster, at Smithils and Gawthorpe, from September 1582 to October 1621. Vol. 4. The Chetham Society. p. 785.
Improved to Good Article status by Floating Orb (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Floating Orb (talk) 17:38, 8 July 2025 (UTC).

Hello @Aneirinn! I fixed it with a new citation. Floating Orb (talk) 24:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC).
I am having some difficulty accessing it to find where the citation supports the hook. Can you quote what is being cited from The New York Times that supports the hook's claim that the Scottish in the 18th century added water to marmalade to produce a less solid preserve than before? Aneirinn (talk) 08:04, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
@Aneirinn, I fixed it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Floating Orb (talk • contribs) 16:21, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
@Aneirinn: Does the above resolve your concerns? If not, what else needs to be done to get this approved? Z1720 (talk) 23:46, 19 July 2025 (UTC)

@Aneirinn put in Alt2, Floating Orb Talk! my edits 19:14, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

  • Full review needed by new reviewer, since the previous reviewer has proposed new hooks. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:10, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
    • Doing a new review per comment above:
More information General: Article is new enough and long enough ...
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Close
More information Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems ...
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Close
More information Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation ...
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Close
More information Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. ...
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Close
QPQ: None required.

Overall: ALT1 is approved. Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:53, 14 August 2025 (UTC)

@Floating Orb: Please note that WP:CLOP talks about superficial modification of material from another source.. Your recent edit is just more superficial modification. You need to summarize source material in [your] own words. RoySmith (talk) 10:27, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

@AirshipJungleman29 @Floating Orb @Dclemens1971 Substantial WP:CLOP vs verifiedmarketreports.com/product/orange-marmalade-market and taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/6140977 RoySmith (talk) 18:23, 21 August 2025 (UTC)

Moved from WT:DYK
Yes, it does appear CLOP is present. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:37, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
Thanks for spotting that. The taiwannews bit will be comparatively simple, the other has a lot more to fix. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:55, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
Given how the hook is close to running, and how CLOP is serious, I've pulled it for now. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:42, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
I just changed up the wording a little bit and even flipped a paragraph. I think it is slightly better now. Floating Orb Talk! my edits 23:07, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
I did a little more. Is it better now? Floating Orb Talk! my edits 16:34, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5 is it better now? - Floating Orb?

@Floating Orb: Your ping to @Narutolovehinata5: wouldn't have worked as you did not sign your post.--Launchballer 00:28, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
I am not the best person to judge if the CLOP issues remain as I merely pulled the hook after others raised concerns. It would be best for other editors like RoySmith, AJ29, or Dclemens1971 to judge. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:30, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
@RoySmith: The nomination times out in just under a week, so please give this another look and see if issues have been addressed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:04, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
This section

North America has the largest of the total revenue of marmalade in the world. Asia Pacific is the fastest-growing region, from growing customer sales in countries like China and India.[44]

The most sold marmalade is bitter orange with the largest share of 55% of sales, 40% by sweet orange marmalade, and 5% in total for all other marmalades. The quickest-growing type is sweet orange marmalade, because of an increasing consumer preference for milder flavours.[44]

Because of large availability, supermarkets have the most marmalade sales, having 45% of the total market share followed by convenience stores (30%), and online stores (15%), while other company types have 10% in total. Online stores are expected to grow the quickest as online purchasing continues to expand in the world.[44]

is basically copied straight from https://www.verifiedmarketreports.com/product/orange-marmalade-market/:

Regional Contribution to Market Revenue (2023): In 2023, North America accounted for the largest share of the orange marmalade market, contributing approximately 35% of the total revenue. Asia Pacific followed with 30%, Europe with 20%, Latin America with 10%, and the Middle East & Africa at 5%. Asia Pacific emerged as the fastest-growing region, driven by rising consumer demand in countries like China and India.

Market Performance by Type (2023): Among the different types of orange marmalade, Bitter Orange Marmalade held the largest share at 55%, followed by Sweet Orange Marmalade at 40%. The "Others" sub-segment, which includes mixed fruit marmalade, accounted for 5%. The fastest-growing sub-segment was Sweet Orange Marmalade, driven by increasing consumer preference for milder flavors.

Key Applications (2023): Supermarkets dominated the market, capturing 45% of the total market share, due to widespread availability. Convenience stores and online stores followed with shares of 30% and 15%, respectively, while other distribution channels made up 10%. Online stores are expected to grow the fastest, as e-commerce continues to expand globally.

with some words changed here and there. It is a classic example of what WP:CLOP describes as superficial modification of material from another source. RoySmith (talk) 11:20, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
Marking for rejection, as copyright issues are clearly still present and we are approaching WP:DYKTIMEOUT with a large backlog; this particular article may in the meantime need a trip to WP:GAR. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:48, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
@Chiswick Chap: who did the GA review, just so you're aware of the issues. RoySmith (talk) 18:17, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

Marmalade

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
Result: Kept. Launchballer 15:07, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

WP:CLOP identified at the DYK nom; courtesy ping to @RoySmith and AirshipJungleman29:. Launchballer 22:20, 3 September 2025 (UTC)

I thought I had already fixed it. Is there anyone else who can help then? Floating Orb Talk! my edits 22:33, 3 September 2025 (UTC)
@Launchballer and @RoySmith? Floating Orb Talk! my edits 01:14, 5 September 2025 (UTC)
Hello? Is this Good article assessment still on? We don't have any consensus to change anything so I think we can close it now. Floating Orb Talk! my edits 00:15, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
@Launchballer? Floating Orb Talk! my edits 00:15, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
No, there remains close paraphrasing in this. I notice @EEng: removed two of the gnarlier instances but some still remains. For example:
  • "The most sold marmalade is bitter orange with the largest share of 55% of sales, 40% by sweet orange marmalade, and 5% in total for all other marmalades. The quickest-growing type is sweet orange marmalade, because of an increasing consumer preference for milder flavours." is still too close to "Among the different types of orange marmalade, Bitter Orange Marmalade held the largest share at 55%, followed by Sweet Orange Marmalade at 40%. The "Others" sub-segment, which includes mixed fruit marmalade, accounted for 5%. The fastest-growing sub-segment was Sweet Orange Marmalade, driven by increasing consumer preference for milder flavors."
  • "Asia Pacific is the fastest-growing region, from growing customer sales in countries like China and India." is too close to "Asia Pacific emerged as the fastest-growing region, driven by rising consumer demand in countries like China and India."
  • "The narrator mocks the mother and child “that she could taste no greater delight than in making a fillagree basket for a spoilt child”" is too close to "The narrator mocks mother and child as well as the fawning Lucy Steele, whose behavior implies “that she could taste no greater delight than in making a fillagree basket for a spoilt child”".
  • "The marmalade market lies in its versatility, cultural associations, and quality, making it a staple in households and gourmet menus around the world." is too close to "Its appeal lies in its versatility, premium quality, and cultural associations, making it a staple in households and gourmet menus worldwide."
  • I also think the phrases "Robertson's was founded in 1864 by Paisley, Renfrewshire, grocer James Robertson and his wife Marion." and "authorise the use of the term "marmalade" as an alternative for “jam”" could be reworded as well.
One solution to the first is "Most marmalade sold is bitter orange (55%), though the quickest growing type is sweet orange (40%) due to rising demand for milder flavors" (you could probably get away with leaving off "other flavours comprise 5%"); I'll leave you to think of how to deal with the others.--Launchballer 01:06, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for giving me the suggestions. I fixed a couple of them here. Floating Orb Talk! my edits 03:28, 9 September 2025 (UTC)
@Launchballer Floating Orb Talk! my edits 14:07, 16 September 2025 (UTC)
Superficial modification I'm afraid, and only of some of them.--Launchballer 14:12, 16 September 2025 (UTC)
@Floating Orb: Please address the above.--Launchballer 15:35, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
Okay. Floating Orb Talk! my edits 15:38, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
@Launchballer, I did a little more. Floating Orb Talk! my edits 17:02, 27 September 2025 (UTC)
I see @Rollinginhisgrave: removed the section containing most of it. This leaves the third and fifth point, which both seem fine to me now.--Launchballer 14:58, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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