User talk:Mydaemonthirst

Hi Mydaemonthirst! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.

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Happy editing! DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted because it included copyrighted content, which is not permitted on Wikipedia.

This submission appears to be taken from https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1382135?section=official-list-entry. Wikipedia cannot accept material copied from elsewhere, unless it explicitly and verifiably has been released to the world under a suitably free and compatible copyright license or into the public domain and is written in an acceptable tone—this includes material that you own the copyright to. You should attribute the content of a draft to outside sources, using citations, but copying and pasting or closely paraphrasing sources is not acceptable. The entire draft should be written using your own words and structure.

You are welcome to write an article on the subject, but please do not use copyrighted work.

• Draft:Swindon Health Hydro may be deleted at any time unless the copied text is removed. Copyrighted work cannot be allowed to remain on Wikipedia.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page. or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I accept that I got that wrong and I have since created another draft article Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:48, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

This is all very well but every time the article gets rejected it's by a different person with a different objection. Some objections have no clear fix available - one reviewer has said that the article reads like an essay (not sure why that would be an issue if it were true) but another reviewer has said that the article is too informal (which I can't see at all).

I am quite sure that, whatever changes I make, a fresh reviewer will come in with a fresh objection. I have written an article on an important subject that is factual, coherent and well backed up with references. When an objection is made, I never find out whether the reviewer is happy with any fixes I have put in place - the reviewer appears, fires a shot across the bows and then disappears from sight.

I shall persevere. The article may never be published in Wikipedia but will be hosted locally if that is the case. It's seems odd that you look for some kind of perfection in a wiki - which I thought should be there to be improved. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 11:25, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Mydaemonthirst! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I am contacting Historic England to see what they have to say. I should have contacted them before using their text - this is a new game for me. Please give me a few days to get a response. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 14:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, but this draft is likely to be deleted anyway.

Also, HE need to realise that they aren't just giving permission (assuming) for you to use their text on Wikipedia, they are irrevocably releasing it into the public domain, after which anyone can do anything they want with that material.

The instructions for donating copyright material is at WP:DCM. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

A tag has been placed on Draft:Swindon Health Hydro requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1382135?section=official-list-entry. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:55, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I now don't seem able to get to the draft page to let Historic England know what text I used. If the page gets deleted, will that block forever any chance of creating a page for this important historic building? Mydaemonthirst (talk) 14:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

You may not use the text from the Historic England web site unless they provide a proper license release. You are allowed to try to write an article about the building using your own words. I've provided some summary information about copyright policy on Wikipedia below. -- Whpq (talk) 14:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I have created another draft article. This time with limited quotations from individual sources, all with inline citations. Multiple sources rather than just one. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello Mydaemonthirst! While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, it's important to understand and adhere to guidelines about using information from sources to prevent copyright and plagiarism issues. Here are the key points:

• Limited quotation: You may only copy or translate a small portion of a source. Any direct quotations must be enclosed in double quotation marks (") and properly cited using an inline citation. More information is available on the non-free content page. To learn how to cite a source, see Help:Referencing for beginners.
• Paraphrasing: Beyond limited quotations, you are required to put all information in your own words. Following the source's wording too closely can lead to copyright issues and is not permitted; see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Even when paraphrasing, you must still cite your sources as appropriate.
• Image use guidelines: In most scenarios, only freely licensed or public domain images may be used and these should be uploaded to our sister project, Wikimedia Commons. In some scenarios, non-freely copyrighted content can be used if they meet all ten of our non-free content criteria; Wikipedia:Plain and simple non-free content guide may help with determining a file's eligibility.
• Copyrighted material donation: If you hold the copyright to the content you want to copy, or are a legally designated agent, you may be able to license the text for publication here. Please see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials.
• Copying and translation within Wikipedia: Wikipedia articles can be copied or translated, however they must have proper attribution in accordance with Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. For translation, see Help:Translation § License requirements.

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices. Persistent failure to comply may result in being blocked from editing. If you have any questions or need further clarification, please ask them here on this page, or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 14:47, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying but it seems I will not get the opportunity to revise the page. This is my first attempt at creating a Wikipedia page and it seems that it may now never be possible to create a page about the Health Hydro. I'm nervous about making a fresh start because, if I get it wrong, I may be barred altogether from Wikipedia. There are a number of others who will want to contribute to the page but will certainly not be confident enough to update it directly themselves. My plan was to make a start but then get others to provide additional information with references, that I could then add. This is an important building and a lot of people in Swindon feel very strongly about it - we want to give it as much prominence as possible and a Wikipedia page would be part of that. It's not easy to come fresh to Wikipedia and create a page and I'm a bit shocked that, having got it wrong, I may have no opportunity to put things right. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 09:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Creating an article from scratch is one of the toughest things to do on Wikipedia. Help:Your first article provides some guidance on how to proceed. You will also want to make sure you that your topic meets the inclusion criteria for Wikipedia. This is almost always referred to as WP:Notability. This is established with significant coverage in independent WP:Reliable sources which you should add as inline citations. Help:Referencing for beginners provides information on how to do that. If the Swindon Health Hydro is a listed building, then there should be some material written about its historic value that would establish that the topic should be on Wikipedia. For help on editing Wikipedia, make use of the WP:Teahouse. The editors there will provide friendly advice and help on how to edit Wikipedia. Cheers. -- Whpq (talk) 14:24, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

I have used multiple sources in a new draft, including ones that state the importance of the building. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:52, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Robert McClenon was:

Thank you for your submission, but the subject of this article already exists in Wikipedia. You can find it and improve it at Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths instead.

 The comment the reviewer left was:

This draft has information that is not in the article and should be added to the article. The article has information that is not in this draft. Please compare and combine the draft and the article. You may ask for advice about comparing and combining a draft and an article at the Teahouse.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Swindon Health Hydro and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Robert McClenon (talk) 23:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

The existing article is just about the Turkish Baths. I would need to rename the article, change it and add to it significantly, Would I be allowed to do all that? There are inaccuracies about the Turkish Baths - they are Victorian-style but Edwardian in age as they were built in 1904-5 and Queen Victoria died in 1901. The article is continually talking about the Turkish Baths and ignoring the large and small swimming pools. It also says nothing about the medical services provided - GP surgery, dispensary, dentistry, dental laboratory, prosthetics, psychology, opthalmology, chiropody and physiotherapy.

Only if I'm permitted to rename the existing article to Swindon Health Hydro, correct it and expand it significantly could I end up with a satisfactory article about the Swindon Health Hydro.

Corrections I've made in the Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article (for instance changing 'Victorian' to 'Victorian-style') have already been reversed. Those who have created an article about the Turkish Baths may chop out everything I add.

There is no such entity as 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths'. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 01:26, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

If we can neither create a fresh article nor rename and revise the existing article then we will have been defeated and the building will never get its Wikipedia article. There is no point having an article entitled 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths', an entity that doesn't exist and no-one in Swindon will recognise.

I want to create an article that we can  publicise and invite people in Swindon to identify errors and omissions. This is on behalf of a campaigning group - 'Friends of Swindon Health Hydro'. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 11:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I'm not sure who you're addressing, but I'll respond.

Starting with your last point, it seems that you have an external relationship with the subject of your draft. This needs to be disclosed. I will post a separate message here about managing conflicts of interest; please read and action it promptly.

It may be possible to expand the existing Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths article with the information from your draft, but this is something which needs to be discussed first to gain consensus from the editing community. The proper place to discuss such a proposal is on the Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths talk page, at Talk:Swindon_Victorian_Turkish_Baths#Proposed_merge_of_Draft:Swindon_Health_Hydro_into_Swindon_Victorian_Turkish_Baths. Please join the conversation there.

You are welcome to edit the existing article, just like any other editor is, just remember to support your edits with reference to reliable sources. You may find that your edits are reverted or changed, at which point you should again discuss the matter on the article talk page. This is what we call the WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle.

Best, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:46, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

The existing article is about the Turkish Baths that are just one part of the Health Hydro. There are also two swimming pools and a 'dry side' that once hosted a GP practice, a dispensary, a dentists, a dental surgery, prosthetics, ophthalmology, chiropody, psychology and physiotherapy departments. My article is intended to cover the whole history of the building from 1891 to the present day, the grade II* listing, building materials and features, the breadth of the medical services offered and the inspiration for the NHS. Also the recent developments relating to restoration projects and management of the building. If I merge all this into the existing article there will be two issues - the article will have the inappropriate title 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' and the existing article's information about the Turkish Baths will be only a small part of the revised article. I've noticed that the author of the existing article has a particular interest in Turkish Baths and has created multiple articles on the subject. I would now like the title of my article to be 'Swindon Health Hydro, also known as Milton Road Baths' - the Hydro's official name used to be Milton Road Baths and many people in Swindon still refer to to it as that. If the article has to be called 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' there will be no point in my doing any work on this at all. I had hoped to create a new article and cross-reference the existing article. I fear that the massive changes I would make to that article would upset those who have concentrated on Turkish Baths - have they been asked how they would feel about the Turkish Baths being swallowed up in this way?

If you insist that we keep with just one article named 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' then this important building will not be represented in Wikipedia. There is no point my doing the hours of necessary work on an article whose title will mean nothing to anyone in Swindon and will simply be lost to sight. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 19:23, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Robert - I expected to make mistakes and get corrected - as when my first draft was correctly rejected. I did not expect such stiff opposition to the whole concept of creating an article about the Swindon Health Hydro. The existing article 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' is about one element within the Hydro - there is much more to be said about the building. The existing article is part of telling the story of the Victorian Turkish Baths movement and that story deserves to be told - why can't it be left alone? I am now going to create a third draft article entitled 'Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths'. I hope that this will make it absolutely clear that it is a separate story deserving a separate article. I expect that there will be improvements to be made but isn't that the point of a wiki?

Regards

Tim Marsden Mydaemonthirst (talk) 08:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Mydaemonthirst. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for article subjects for more information. We ask that you:

• avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, colleagues, company, organization, clients, or competitors;
• propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (you can use the {{edit COI}} template)—don't forget to give details of reliable sources supporting your suggestions;
• disclose your conflict of interest when discussing affected articles (see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest § How to disclose a COI);
• avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam § External link spamming);
• do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicizing, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

I have no formal connection with the building, only an interest in it as someone who lives in Swindon and wants to see its heritage preserved. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

You said earlier you're editing "on behalf of a campaigning group - 'Friends of Swindon Health Hydro'"? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 12:28, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

We are just an informal volunteer group. I have no material interest in the building. Are you barring me from creating a Wikipedia page because I'm interested in the future of the building I'm writing about? I wouldn't want to right about something I didn't care about. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 22:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst It's okay to write about topics you have a relationship with - you just need to disclose it by following the instructions in the link above. qcne (talk) 16:59, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

which link? Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I have no financial interest in the Swindon Health Hydro. I have no connection to the owners of the building (Swindon Borough Council) or the operators of the building (Greenwich Leisure Ltd, trading as Better) other than being a resident of one and a customer of the other. I am a member of Friends of Swindon Health Hydro, an informal group who are campaigning for the full refurbishment and full use of the building. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 19:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Mydaemonthirst, I think you do have a conflict of interest, so just pop that on your User Page following the instructions at WP:COI. This doesn't stop you editing or writing the draft/article, it just ensures transparency. qcne (talk) 21:46, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm confused by this - still haven't worked out how to record a conflict of interest, though I'm not sure why you think I have one. i keep replying to questions and mentioning my membership of an informal voluntary group but it seems I'm supposed to record this somewhere and I still don't know where. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 22:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

This process is unbelievably unfriendly. I've looked at the page on conflict of interest. Why isn't there a link that I can follow and record a conflict of interest? It should be a five minute task and I've now been attempting this task multiple times without success. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 09:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi again @Mydaemonthirst. You are right, unfortunately Wikipedia is pretty hard to use for new editors. Sorry about that.

If you go to your User Page at User:Mydaemonthirst, then paste in:

{{UserboxCOI|1=>''[[Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths]]''}}

then click Publish page, you'll have successfully declared your conflict of interest and you won't need to do anything else to declare it.

Let me know if you are still struggling or have any more questions. qcne (talk) 12:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that - I wanted to declare a conflict of interest but not having a clue how to do that was driving me nuts. As a member of 'Friends of Swindon Health Hydro', I do want to avoid anything that might imperil current or future funding bids for the building. Having said that, I'm trying to be as straightforward and factual as possible. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 13:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by SafariScribe were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in secondary, reliable sources and not contain opinions or original research. Please write about the topic from a neutral point of view in an encyclopedic manner.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 11:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a long time since I've written an essay but I don't believe that the article is in essay form and I don't understand why that would matter anyway.

The sources I've cited are all genuine. Please specify which I'm not allowed to use. Removing these will leave me making statements I can't back up.

Some sources are paper sources held in Local Studies in Swindon Central Library - these were published by Swindon Borough Council or its predecessor Thamesdown Borough Council.

Other sources are documents held on Swindon Borough Council's planning pages - the URL is for the relevant planning application and the document can be found on that page. The planning documents published on that website are written either by the council's planning officer or a respected heritage consultant.

There are also references to newspaper articles, giving titles, dates and page numbers.

And there are URLs to websites for Google, The Victorian Society, Culham Ticket Office, the BBC, the Swindon Advertiser and Greenwich Leisure Ltd.

By original research do you mean reading documents in a library and then citing them? Is that banned?

I have not expressed my opinions in the article - I have quoted other people's opinions.

This article is written to replace the earlier draft article 'Swindon Health Hydro' because I was being told that I should amend 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' rather than create a new article - this would have buried the story of the Health Hydro in an inappropriate place and also messed up the coverage of the Victorian Turkish baths movement.

I'm a big user of Wikipedia and will continue to be so but it seems that to contribute to it you need to know more about Wikipedia's numerous technicalities than about the subject you're actually interested in. My current intention is to add one article and make minor changes to some of the cross-referenced articles. If I succeed in this, which now seems unlikely, I might consider trying to create an article on Swindon's Railway Village. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 12:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Mydaemonthirst, hello. I happened across the various articles, draft or otherwise, about the Swindon Health Hydro and the Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths, and found them interesting. I think that it is probably reasonable to have separate articles about the two, with a link from one to the other. However, as it stands I'd say that your current draft needs some work before it is likely to be accepted. N.B. that the yellow box above is a standard template, so it might not all be pertinent to your draft as it is. To my eyes - and I am not a hugely experienced editor of Wikipedia - I would say:

• There is too much cut'n'paste from sources to the article, whether quoted or not.
  • Obviously any unquoted material is a copyright violation and that is taken quite seriously. You might find this analysis useful to identify possible copyright violations.
  • But also, it is better to have an absolute minimum of quoted material. Rather it should be written in your own words, with the citation then supporting that. I had a go at doing that in the first section, so hopefully you can see what I mean.
• If you haven't already looked at the guidance, these two bits are quite worthwhile:
  • writing from a neutral point of view
  • using an encyclopedic style
• The article is probably too long as it stands, and you could usefully make it more concise.
• As to the title, I reckon it's too long. I would suggest Swindon Health Hydro with a subsequent redirect from Milton Road Baths.

I hope that is somewhat helpful. SunloungerFrog (talk) 17:00, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to prune and rework the article. I'm getting more source material. Also, I want it to fit into the context of Swindon's Railway Village - this will include some modification of the overview of the Railway Village in the Swindon Works article.

It will take me a bit of time before I'm ready to do this as will want to now get it right. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 06:52, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Well let me know if I can help in any way. I am happy to assist with copy editing your draft, or simply a read through with a second pair of eyes. SunloungerFrog (talk) 11:20, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

I know that I need to trim the article and make a number of changes. At the moment, I'm concentrating on gathering more sources. One concern is a possible over-reliance on the Historic England listing entry. I also need to paraphrase more. When I've got more sources I will edit again.

One frustration is that I may need to remove a part of the story that I know to be factual - the provision of complementary medical offerings in the 1980s to the early 2000s. I've found local authority leaflets advertising the offerings and I'm in regular contact with the manager who brought complementary medicine into the building. To me it's a strange but interesting interlude. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 09:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I wonder if there is any press coverage of the complementary medicine offerings from the time? As to the leaflets, I think it is OK to use primary sources in small amounts, provided that there are sufficient secondary sources to establish its notability. In case you don't already have this in your files, https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15008810.the-health-hydros-place-at-the-heart-of-a-healthcare-revolution/ looks like it might be useful. SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Someone I know thinks he may relevant newspaper cuttings - if so I will use that and the council leaflets. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:50, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Mydaemonthirst, we have previously communicated about the article you drafted Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths. I saw that you recently resubmitted it through AFC. I wanted to warn you that, on the face of it, there is a good deal of copyright infringement, where you have taken text directly from sources and included it in your article. This analysis will show you where this has happened, and at the moment you run the risk of the article's being nominated for speedy deletion. I strongly recommend that you rewrite all of the sections highlighted in the copyvios report in your own words, and do that as soon as possible. You may wish to unsubmit your article in the meantime. Cheers, SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:33, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

The first item you mention is a recent article posted by Swindon Borough Council. I had copied to them my draft Wikipedia article and agreed that they could use my work (https://www.swindon.gov.uk/info/20030/planning_and_regeneration/1714/the_health_hydro/6). So this article on the SBC website is a direct copy of my work.

I will look at the other items. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 10:51, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Ah, that explains the similarity with the Swindon Borough Council page, then. It would be worth your while noting that on the article's talk page, using the {{Backwards copy}} template, so that other editors do not make the same mistake as I did. Cheers, SunloungerFrog (talk) 10:59, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

I would have to rewrite the whole article but the facts are the facts. I don't see how I can possibly state the facts without using many of the same words. I have cited all of my sources. It seems likely that I will be defeated in my attempt to create an article about the Health Hydro - a building of national importance in the UK. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 11:01, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Well it seems that there are now only three problematic paragraphs: these two

During the First World War, the GWR works...

Until it was taken over by the National Health Service...

and this one:

By 1947, when the National Health Service

I'd say that the first two could easily be rewritten in your own words, keeping the Aneurin Bevin quote as is. I see that the last one is more tricky as it is predominantly a list of things, but you could probably do a little more paraphrasing. Cheers, SunloungerFrog (talk) 11:10, 2 April 2025 (UTC)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Seraphimblade was:

This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in secondary, reliable sources and not contain opinions or original research. Please write about the topic from a neutral point of view in an encyclopedic manner.

 The comment the reviewer left was:

Might be notable, but needs a lot of trimming of what appears to be editoralizing/personal views. Images need to be thumbnail size on the right, not large and interrupting the text flow. Will move to an appropriate title.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 23:00, 13 February 2025 (UTC)

What part of the building's history am I supposed to lose. I have not included personal views and I don't understand this comment. You clearly do not regard this as an important topic. I will change the images but what is thumbnail size - small enough that the images can't be seen? What do you regard as an appropriate title - the building's current name is Swindon Health Hydro but many people refer to it as Milton Road Baths. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 13:51, 14 February 2025 (UTC)

You would place the article at the most commonly known name, which is probably the current name, and make redirects to that article from any alternate titles, as well as noting in the article text what names it has had prior. There would only be one article about it, though, not multiple. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 04:50, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Oh, as to personal views, I mean things like this: An enormous complex (don't editorialize that it's "enormous"), ‘the oldest health centre in the world – the very first ever seen.’ (don't use junk pull quotes like that), and so on and so on. It reads like a coffee table book with all that embellishing, not an encyclopedia article in a neutral tone. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 05:06, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

The reason I wanted to call the article 'Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths' is that many people locally still call it Milton Road Baths and I wanted people to be able to find the article whether googling for Health Hydro or Milton Road Baths. I'm prepared to accept your rule, though, and see it changed to 'Swindon Health Hydro'.

I'm dropping 'enormous' as it is such a relative term. I'll lose the quote about the oldest health centre as it is quoting someone else's opinion and I can't edit a quote. I will bow to your personal dislikes. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 09:56, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Mydaemonthirst. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 17:10, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

I am working on 'Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths' so this must be an earlier version that can be deleted. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 18:16, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

While I have received your email, it did not contain anything which would need to be privately discussed off the wiki. If you would like to discuss the matter you raised, please either contact me on my talk page, or reply here (I will be notified of new posts within this section). Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 21:14, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Mydaemonthirst. This message concerns the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Swindon Health Hydro".

Drafts that go unedited for six months are eligible for deletion, in accordance with our draftspace policy, and this one has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission, and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you read this, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions here. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the draft so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia! DreamRimmer bot II (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by HilssaMansen19 was:

This submission does not appear to be written in the formal tone expected of an encyclopedia article. Entries should be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources. Please rewrite your submission in a more encyclopedic format. Please make sure to avoid peacock terms that promote the subject.

 The comment the reviewer left was:

Thank you for your efforts. Apart from the previous concerns, it is not written in standard format. Lead is missing. The draft is not being accepted for now, before submitting it again, kindly check Standard Style of Articles.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Swindon Health Hydro, Formerly Known as Milton Road Baths and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

HilssaMansen19Irien1291S • spreading wiki love ~ Message here; no calls 11:05, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

This article gets rejected with a different reason every time. What is meant by a 'formal tone'. I have looked through the article again and I cannot see anything that is informal. Also, what is meant by 'lead is missing'?

I have removed the comment stating that the swimming pools look more like railway stations than swimming pools. I have also removed the comment stating that the small pool was particularly suitable for learners and less confident swimmers. These are the only two opinions I could see in the article that might be regarded as subjective, apart from the direct quote from Nye Bevan - not my opinion.

I would be grateful if the article could be renamed to 'Swindon Health Hydro, Milton Road Swindon'. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 23:00, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

Firstly, you can use {{| }} with "U" before "|" and username after "|". I was checking draft edits and thus, checked this by chance.

As for the second point, LEAD is missing and you may have not read writing standards of the articles since that mentions it.

I know it can be frustrating but assume good faith and recheck other concerns. I checked it and all are relevant. Also, find a similar topic's article for further guidance. Still, if you have any doubts, feel free to reach out. Happy editing! HilssaMansen19Irien1291S • spreading wiki love ~ Message here; no calls 21:38, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Hi Mydaemonthirst. I see some discussion about you wanting to declare a conflict of interest above.

If you edit the source of your userpage (this link) and place {{User COI|1=Swindon Health Hydro|text=I am a member of 'Friends of Swindon Health Hydro'}} there, that should do the trick. Let me know if you need help with this. Commander Keane (talk) 09:12, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I have done as you suggested. Early on in my attempts to get an article on the Health Hydro published (a previous now abandoned draft), the same issue was raised and I was asked to enter some code, which I did and I assumed I had dealt with the matter of conflict of interest then.

I have been perplexed by Wikipedia's review process. The whole article is never reviewed. Instead, the reviewer finds a reason to reject the article and stops at that, with the article left on hold for another few weeks or months.

To start off with I got a series of understandable objections that I could fix and then wait for the next rejection. Then I started getting objections that were not valid and to which I couldn't react. One reviewer said that my article reads like an essay, which it doesn't. Another reviewer said that my article contains informal language, which it doesn't.

I then got got an objection that I could understand. I let Swindon Borough Council use a draft of my article on their website. The reviewer thought I had copied that web page. I explained that it was the other way round and that was accepted but my article still wasn't published, with no further reason given

Twice I have been told that my article can't be published because there is already an article about the Health Hydro. This is not the case. There is an article on the Victorian Turkish Baths movement in Swindon, part of a series of articles on Victorian Turkish Baths. That article includes predecessor Turkish baths in the town. If I were to turn that into an article on the history of the Health Hydro, I would be completely subverting the purpose and focus of the existing article. The Health Hydro is a complicated building with a complicated history. The 'wet side' (swimming pools, wash hall and Turkish baths) is about one third of the building. The 'dry side' (originally the dispensary, consulting rooms, dental laboratories, etc) takes up roughly two thirds of the building. Its management has gone through a series of changes over 133 years, which I describe in my article. To over-write an article on the Victorian Turkish baths movement with all of that would bury the original topic entirely. Of course, there need to be cross-references.

I am passionate about the building and I know it deserves to have an article in Wikipedia. I won't give up but I do wonder whether it will ever be published. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 11:13, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I did comment at your Help desk question about this. I know the Draft process is wonky! For me, Wikipedia is about sharing knowledge from reliable sources. If that is your goal too, persevere. Of course, not every topic needs an article if the knowledge is more suitable elsewhere. Commander Keane (talk) 11:33, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I have been careful to back up what I say with good sources. I can get this published locally in Swindon but the building is of national importance and deserves greater prominence. Wikipedia is the perfect place because it is accessible to everybody and gives the opportunity to cross-reference an article with related topics in other articles (which wouldn't happen elsewhere). Mydaemonthirst (talk) 12:10, 28 December 2025 (UTC)

I have now reworked the Swindon Victorian Baths article to make it even clearer that the article is about Turkish Baths and not about the Swindon Health Hydro as a building. Of course there is overlap and there will need to be cross-references. I did not want to bury what was part of a series of articles about the Victorian Turkish Baths movement with the 133 year history of the Health Hydro, the vast bulk of which is not about Turkish baths. Mydaemonthirst (talk) 12:33, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Article is 'Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths' Mydaemonthirst (talk) 12:36, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

I have further tweaked the start of Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths. I meant to put in the edit summary MOS:CAPS, as Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalisation.

It will be interesting to see how Swindon Health Hydro is mentioned and dealt with in Swindon Victorian Turkish Baths. Apart from a link in the lead section, I was thinking a section Swindon Health Hydro at the end with brief summary like:

== Swindon Health Hydro ==

For further information see Swindon Health Hydro. <<this would be your draft if accepted>>

Swindwon Health Hydro is a Grade II* building built in 1891-92 and has since been home to the baths, health and leisure services.

Or something like that. We will see I guess. Commander Keane (talk) 14:20, 29 December 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Swindon Works, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

• A dates error. References show this error when one of the date-containing parameters is incorrectly formatted. Please edit the article to correct the date and ensure it is formatted to follow the Wikipedia Manual of Style's guidance on dates. (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 21:07, 13 February 2026 (UTC)