Talk:Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. A simple head count is misleading here. Claiming a title being put forward on a common name basis breaks NPOV because some people don't use it or with no elaboration as to why it's NPOV has little to no PAG basis, Rojava is a proper noun used in English and a name being official generally isn't relevant. This close came down to the common name argument against concerns over the proposed disambiguations; discussion over alternatives took place but no consensus was reached. Additionally, a valid PAG-based WP:NATDAB concern was also raised and went unaddressed. (non-admin closure) ⹃Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley${\displaystyle \lor }$investigateᛅ} 11:05, 17 April 2026 (UTC)

• Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria → Rojava (administration)
• Syrian Kurdistan → Rojava (region)

– Rojava is by far the most WP:COMMONNAME used in reliable sources. — EarthDude (Talk) 22:01, 12 March 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 14:49, 2 April 2026 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 01:36, 10 April 2026 (UTC)

But that's not the same, and we already have the Syrian Kurdistan/Rojava article. FunkMonk (talk) 22:07, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

That's why I requested the names of both of these articles to be the same. The term "Rojava" is used more in both cases. — EarthDude (Talk) 22:14, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose: WP:NATDIS overrides WP:COMMONNAME. –Gluonz ^{talk contribs} 22:38, 12 March 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose: NPOV isues + we using English names (Turkey) (Ivory coast) Shadow4dark (talk) 22:46, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Rojava is the common name in English so the current title is more analogous to the preferred names of Turkey and Ivory Coast. Though I should also note that we don't use "English" names, we just use the common name. Swaziland is "more English" than Eswatini & the Czech Republic says their official English name is "Czechia" (even though their name in the Czech language translates to Czech Republic), but in all of these cases, we use the common name.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 05:52, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

It adds more issues as consistency as Syrian Kurdistan is part of broader articles as Iranian Kurdistan, Turkish Kurdistan, and Iraqi Kurdistan. People who are not familiar with these topics will be confused if we using different languages names and not consistent names. Shadow4dark (talk) 01:30, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

I agree with not renaming Syrian Kurdistan, but it wouldn't cause confusion to rename this article to the more concise English common name for the polity in line with article naming policy.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 14:12, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose, making this article about the administration would be a scope change. CMD (talk) 02:55, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
• Comment we should not make it more confusing Braganza (talk) 21:07, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Anarchism, WikiProject Limited recognition, WikiProject Syria, WikiProject Kurdistan, WikiProject Socialism, WikiProject 2010s, and WikiProject Assyria have been notified of this discussion. GuesanLoyalist (talk) 04:32, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

• Support. Locals and foreign commentators call the administration "Rojava" almost exclusively, and they have for years. The way the article presents "Rojava" as a secondary name is fundamentally misleading. lethargilistic (talk) 05:59, 14 March 2026 (UTC)
• Comment: I would like to remind editors that WP:COMMONNAME overrides WP:OFFICIALNAME and their respective English names. See, for instance, Denali or Göttingen. I have created the following table, which shows that Rojava is by far the common name, both for the region and the administrative state, in scholarly sources. — EarthDude (Talk) 06:36, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

More information Source, Rojava ...

Source	Rojava	Syrian Kurdistan	Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria
Google Scholar	11,000	1,690	85
Taylor and Francis	21	9	None
JSTOR	1,083	189	5
Springer Nature	340	73	3
Oxford University Press	297	44	4
Wiley	107	22	3
De Gruyter	626	103	4

Close

— EarthDude (Talk) 06:38, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Rojava seems to be the common name, going to declare a support for me. GuesanLoyalist (talk) 07:24, 19 March 2026 (UTC)

Rojava may be the common name but "(region)" is ambiguous (per the first paragraph in that article) and "(administration)" is simply wrong. CMD (talk) 00:50, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

What about:

• Moving the article to just Rojava
• Making the current Rojava that occupies as a disambig as instead, Rojava (disambigulation)?
• We'll keep Syrian Kurdistan as just Syrian Kurdistan

GuesanLoyalist (talk) 02:18, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

My instinct would be that the polity has become the primary topic over time, but it's the sort of claim that a simple use table doesn't help us with. From the abstracts of the first 10 Taylor and Francis hits linked above, I can't tell for 2, 3 refer to the region, 4 refer to the polity, and 1 treats the region and the polity as the same (and has a similar footnote on usage to what we have here). CMD (talk) 04:49, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

hmm, I would still assume that some few sources would refer to the DAANES as Rojava, but I'm not going to force you to go through each sources. I think there is another option available to do if possible? GuesanLoyalist (talk) 07:09, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Some do, perhaps roughly half (really this is our fault for having two separate articles, sources don't usually have to distinguish between Cuba the island and Cuba the country). Disambiguators for DAANES run into potential political objections, (autonomous region) may be a more specific disambiguator even if de facto, (self-governing entity), (polity), or similar would also distinguish the topic. Some term that does not refer to the "administration", which oddly enough we don't have an article for. CMD (talk) 08:21, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

If we would have to rely on disambiguations in the title, I would suggest Rojava (Autonomous region) if possible.

What do you think of it though? GuesanLoyalist (talk) 09:04, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

I wouldn't object to that if needed to disambiguate from Syrian Kurdistan. CMD (talk) 09:16, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

@CMD What about moving Syrian Kurdistan to Rojava (region) and then this article to Rojava (polity)? I say the former due to the existence of articles such as Palestine (region), to keep the naming across articles WP:CONSISTENT. However, if that isn't sufficient, I wouldn't mind moving Syrian Kurdistan to Rojava (geographical region). — EarthDude (Talk) 06:32, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

I don't mind "polity" but it may not be the most accessible word for the general reader. CMD (talk) 07:42, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

What about moving this article to Rojava (administrative region) and Syrian Kurdistan to Rojava (geographical region)? — EarthDude (Talk) 07:45, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

That makes sense for this article, however the administrative region is also a geographical region (it is geo- and -political). The idea raised by others of leaving Syrian Kurdistan as is has merit, along with potentially arguing the polity is the WP:PTOPIC for "Rojava". CMD (talk) 07:57, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm fine with moving both articles as well as only moving this to Rojava as the primary topic. Both seem like decent options and I don't really have a preference for one over the other. The current title has to change, as it is neither the WP:COMMONNAME nor is it WP:CONCISE as VanillaWizard has aptly stated. — EarthDude (Talk) 08:06, 22 March 2026 (UTC)

These above sources in table are misleading as Rojava is mentioned in older sources before Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria was established. Shadow4dark (talk) 20:44, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

• Support whether it's simply "Rojava" or "Rojava (autonomous region)" for all the same reasons why myself and others suggested this in last year's many failed moves to various other titles. This is the clear COMMONNAME and always has been, and is very possibly also the PRIMARYTOPIC for the term Rojava as the name most often refers to the polity rather than the region. The page Syrian Kurdistan can stay Syrian Kurdistan either way. But the current title of "Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria" fails both WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE, and common names override official names in naming policy.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 06:16, 22 March 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose: Rojava is the name of a region called by somebody. This article is about an entity. + this entity doesn't name itself as Rojava Yakamoz51 (talk) 19:23, 23 March 2026 (UTC)

  Naming policy very often requires us to use names other than the official names entities use for themselves. Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's official name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources)  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 14:26, 30 March 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose - not everyone calls that region "Rojava"; the proposed title implies WP:NPOV issues. ^NeoSyria\Freedoxm (talk · contribs) 20:30, 28 March 2026 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Vic Park (talk) 08:20, 29 March 2026 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject 2010s, WikiProject Kurdistan, WikiProject Syria, and WikiProject Assyria have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 14:48, 2 April 2026 (UTC)

Relisting comment: This seems to be leaning toward either "not moved" or "no consensus" at the moment, relisted as there are a variety of conflicting opinions ASUKITE 14:49, 2 April 2026 (UTC)