User talk:Ekdalian
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Happy Xmas
Seasonal Greets!
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Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015!!! |
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Hello Ekdalian, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015. Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages. |
== Seasonal Greets! ==
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Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015!!! |
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Hello Ekdalian, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015. Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages. |
Cup of tea
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A cup of tea for the gentleman! Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:06, 5 January 2015 (UTC) |
Thanks
Snippet views
Please do not use Google Books snippet views, for which we have no sense of context and which very frequently end up misrepresenting the source when it comes to caste articles. I thought I had mentioned this to you before but I'm not digging around to find it. - Sitush (talk) 11:13, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
Greets!
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Happy Holi!!!......Happy Holi!!! |
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Hello , may you be surrounded by cheers, pleasure, peace, success and happiness on this Happy Holi and through out the year 2015. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy Holi, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Happy Holi 2015. |
- Thanks Mahensingha. Wish you a happy & colourful Holi.. Ekdalian (talk) 07:29, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
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Happy New Year Ekdalian!
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Talkback
Message added 17:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
MahenSingha (Talk) 17:50, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
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Train-the-Trainer 2017: Invitation to participate
Hello Ekdalian,
It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Train-the-Trainer (TTT) 2017 programme organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 20-22 February 2017.
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Regards. GSS (talk|c|em) 09:27, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notification for April 16
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British Judgements about Kayastha status
Dear Ekdalian,
You can see The Indian Law Reports: Calcutta series, Volume 10 By India. High Court (Calcutta, India) page 465.It is freely available on the web.
In this case I thought it was essential to read the British Judgement.
It is clear after reading this 1884 judgement that the British court considered only the customs(and varna) of specific regional Kayasthas and made their judgement on only certain particular Kayasthas of some regions. (It is explicitly mentioned in the judgement as to what they took into account). So to make a blanket statement about all Indians (of the community) is not right IMHO ; especially if it is offensive.
Secondly , there have been judgments made much later by the British as well as census reports by British that classify Kayastha as Kshatriya. In the view of the above facts, it is obvious that the "them" pronoun mentioned by the author you quote is referring to the last noun in that sentence(page 202 of Rowe) i.e. Bengali kayasthas. Either that is what the author meant or the author has been careless in framing the sentence. This is obvious from the judgement itself.
In any case , if there are conflicting opinions , it is best to avoid one sided/biased views since they have an agenda(especially that can be hurtful to a community).
BTW, I am neither Bengali not do I belong to the above community, nor am I in India. I only have interest in the literate castes of India (like Brahmins and Kayasthas) and their history.
Just my two cents.
Regards, M. Acharya. ps. I am new to Wikipedia. Please guide me if I am incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Acharya63 (talk • contribs) 05:19, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
- Dear Acharya63, what you have mentioned above is fine. But Wikipedia doesn't consider primary sources like judgements, and instead consider reliable texts; the part of the text mentioned in the source (Page 202) clearly talks about all the Kayasthas in general. This is probably because of several judgements from different British courts. Anyway, we are not supposed to modify the statements taken from the reference, and these are considered as sourced statements. I understand you are new to Wikipedia and may not be fully aware of our policies. Please read WP:RS, WP:V and WP:OR. Regards. Ekdalian (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Mythology Namasudra(Namassej) and Manoranja Byapari
Regarding your comment on the talk page on the basis of which the mythology of this Hindu-apartheid vindicated community has been deleted , I humbly want to inform you that do not AGREE WITH. Firstly Only writer of International recognition to have mentioned the Mythology is Manoranjan Byapari . He is , not was as you have written . He is not promoting Dalit Writing that much . Rather he did not get any publicity though his Autobigraphical Discourse ( not a Novel ) is not about Dalits , rather a discourse about the Oppressed People In General ; unfortunately being a victim of Hindu Apartheid he faced personally many problems , and one of those is Destroy His writing . And what you have written the truth is just the opposite of that , Rather The Dalit Literature Promoted Him. Now neiter Sekhar Badyopadhyay , Nor Joya Chatterjee , nor any Caste Hindu Writer , whose reference is in your list , has mentioned the Mythology , is that a community fault , is that enough reason that for this a Bangla Academy Award winner writer becomes unreliable , although any such past writers , have been used in many India related articles as reliable source , is that him being outcaste , an Avarna , makes his writing , the autobiographical Discourse , an unreliable source ?
I want your permission to use both his writing and another Ph.D thesis of a member of this Avarna community to be permitted being used as reliable source . If the Varna Hindu samaj due to their hatred and Apartheid inherent in their Hindu Religion ignores and omits our mythology , then it is not our fault , and I strongly believe , that the editors should take the discourses written by our community members as reliable source . প্রাকৃতনমঃস্বেজ (talk) 04:49, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
- This is an example where an author belonging to a community, writes about the same, and is a clear case of conflict of interest. The source would not be considered as a reliable one in this context. PhD thesis cannot be cited here as WP:RS, please check reliable texts by reputed & neutral authors. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 05:58, 27 July 2017
- Reputed and neutral . Hoom !!Will this do ? https://www.morebooks.de/store/gb/book/namassej/isbn/978-613-3-52173-5 প্রাকৃতনমঃস্বেজ (talk) 13:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Harichand Thakur /Matua mahasnagha etc and Sipra Mukherjee
The scholar Sipra Mukherjee in her writing has written that In Matuya movement 'Chamar , Mahishya , mali ........ etc." communities joined.I have written In Bengal Not "Chamar" the term is "Muchi/Muchiram" , "Ruhidas" or "Rishidas" etc .Their population is also not much. And the "Chamars' we find in urban Bengal now came mainly from Bihar . But Sipra Mukherjee has written so , got a publisher like elite and so Sitush did not allow and I think you will not also . The upper caste people are changing things in the discourse . Erasing the original myths and etc. It is miserable . In the main book of Mtuya primarily Harichand not acknowledged as "Avatar" but the Mukherjee has so written . You are a Bengali Upper Caste . I do not know about Sitush. But you must be aware of the distortion . The tragedy is that Harilialmrito itself cannot be used as a source book as it has no English Translation and secondly for being not written by a Reliable Person ( Tarak Sarkar , is an untouchable lower caste practically uneducated non-pundit ). I am not asking for any correction . For a suggestion as what could be done?117.194.195.149 (talk) 06:25, 30 July 2017 (UTC)
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Hmm....
Nath cast
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Conduct research before reversing edits
Mr. Ekdalian, me being blocked from Wikipedia won't necessarily cover up or alter the truth. The Kayasthas have been legally accorded Kshatriya status. Do conduct at least SOME research before reversing the edits. Thank you. Regards from Semper Curious Semper Curious (talk) 06:59, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
- I am aware of the 'truth', and have done all possible research on the topics I edit. But you need to be aware that we have stick to the policies of Wikipedia, and we can mention only reliably sourced verifiable statements in the articles here. No original research is allowed; read WP:OR. It would be better if you keep your opinion aside for a moment, and check what reliable sources say, especially in this case about the quasi-historical narrative related to the origin of Kulin Kayasthas in Bengal. Hope you understand. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 07:27, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Read the article on Kayastha
Do consult the article on the exact Varna status of Kayasthas.. That Wikipedia has to offer. We don't have our version of truth... But one should not hold himself from accepting the truth Semper Curious (talk) 08:34, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Here's what you demand
The last census of the British Raj in India (1931) classified them as an 'upper caste' i.e. Dwija and the final British Raj law case involving their varna in 1926 placed them into the Kashtriya varna.
According to W.Rowe's account (that later scholars disagreed with), during the British Raj era, certain law cases led to courts classifying Kayasthas as shudras, based largely upon the theories of Herbert Hope Risley who had conducted extensive studies on castes and tribes of the Bengal Presidency. According to Rowe, the Kayasthas of Bengal, Bombay and the United Provinces repeatedly challenged this classification by producing a flood of books, pamphlets, family histories and journals to pressurize the government for recognizing them as Kshatriya and to reform the caste practices in the directions of sanskritisation and westernisation. However, scholars from the University of Berkeley as well as the University of Cambridge have disagreed with Rowe's research by pinpointing 'factual and interpretative errors' in his study as well as criticizing his study for making 'unquestioned assumptions' about the kayastha movement of sanskritisation and westernisation.
H.Bellenoit gives the details of the individual British Raj era law cases and concludes that since the kayasthas are a non-cohesive group and not a single caste, their varna was resolved in the cases that came up by taking into account regional differences and customs followed by that particular caste. Bellenoit also disagrees with W.Rowe by showing that Herbert Hope Risley's theories were in fact used to ultimately classify them as Kshatriyas by the British courts. The first case began in 1860 in Jaunpur, Uttar Pradesh with a property dispute where the plaintiff was considered an 'illegitimate child' by the defendants, a north-Indian Kayastha family. The British court denied inheritance to the child, citing that Kayasthas are Dvija, "twice-born" or "upper-caste" and that the illegitimate children of Dwijas have no rights to inheritance. In the next case in 1875 in the Allahabad High Court, a north Indian Kayastha widow was denied adoption rights as she was an upper-caste i.e. Dwija woman. However, in an 1884 adoption case as well as a 1916 property dispute, Calcutta High Court argued that Bengali kayasthas have started using names like 'Das' and classified the Bengali Kayasthas as shudras - although the court did acknowledge their Kshatriya origin. The Allahabad High Court ruled in 1890 that Kayasthas were Kshatriyas. Finally, in a property dispute case in Patna in 1926, the Patna court characterized both the 1884 and 1916 Calcutta courts rulings as inconclusive and ultimately ruled that the kayasthas were of Kshatriya origin and hence twice born or dwija. The Patna court cited smritis and Puranas, several colonial ethnologists, such as William Crooke and Herbert Hope Risley, and used their qualified endorsements on the dwija origins of Kayasthas. The British census of 1931 also lists Kayasthas as one of the upper (twice-born) castes. Semper Curious (talk) 08:39, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Nath
Plz don't chnage about nath coz nath are high ranked brahmins they are called rudraj brhamins nowadays debnath nath don't get obcs maybe earlier time they got but nowadays they didn't so they are recognized as brhamins.plz sir don't chnage it thus is real don't call a brahmin other backward class Siddy0070 (talk) 06:49, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- We have to follow the policies of Wikipedia, and I have already left a note on your talk page. Ekdalian (talk) 07:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
- @Ekdalian Hey, I am commenting here since I am not interested in starting a new thread on the similar topic. The Links provided under your edits to "Debnath" do not show any such information. It was raised. Kindly check/verify that yourself and do what is necessary. These two links are devoid of any such mentions. Given your experience with WIKI editing, the due diligence can be done. You do have a coterie of people, it appears, that acts in a concerted manner to prevent editing of any broken links on such topics. I am still assuming it is done in a good faith, given the complexity of the issues. The purpose is not to engage any edit-redit cycle. One needs to place verifiable information. It was not done. Hope you take care of this issue. 131.169.233.226 (talk) 10:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Ekdalian Hi, I noted that the page "Debnath" has been updated. Thanks for taking the time. But, kindly check the information on the link provided. There is no mention of the surname "Debnath". OBC assignments has been made to Nath only. Do what is justifiable by removing that assignment, if necessary. I did mention that in the previous discussion, which was clearly misinterpreted. Hope you realize the gravity of the issue. Kindly do not conflate the issue between the caste and the reservation listings – a majority of the debate that you are having in this page in related to that. Your previous discussion elsewhere did reflect a fact-based approach. Why get sloppy here – it is incomprehensible. But I do appreciate you taking the time. 131.169.233.226 (talk) 13:08, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
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This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
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Don't refer non-vandalistic edits a 'vandalism'. See WP:NOTVAND. Try addressing concerns on talk page before restoring any WP:OR unsupported by source. Aman Kumar Goel(Talk) 13:18, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Aman Kumar Goel, hope you understand that I am here in Wikipedia for quite a number of years now, and very much of the discretionary sanctions; I have pasted this on others' talk pages, and I keep on fighting with unsourced edits as well as vandalism; therefore it doesn't make much sense to inform me about the same. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 05:34, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
Bengali Kayasthas
I included those surnames because they are listed on the same page and because multiple source materials reference these very names.
Melotown (talk) 16:33, 3 January 2020 (UTC)
- Hello Melotown, I understand; and there's no doubt that these are reliably sourced and all. The list is too limited, typically including the surnames of Kulin Kayathas. I had earlier included a list of common Bengali Kayastha surnames here, which was somewhat more inclusive, and reliably sourced; somehow, it is no longer there in the current version. Moreover, I strongly believe that it should not be included in the lead section, even if the list is more inclusive, and may deserve mention in the body of the article. In this case, these surnames are already mentioned later in the article itself. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 05:19, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
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