User talk:Cloptonson

Just a quick glance at the history of this page revealed to me that you have a long-lasting association with it. An idea came to me about a new entry to it: Members who had been knighted before entering the House. As you will most likely know, at any given time, most -if not all- knights sitting on the House of Commons were knighted because of their distinguished parliamentary career. In the current session, the only two people to have been knighted before being elected to the House are Sir Paul Beresford (who became a knight for services to the City of London during his time as a borough councillor) and Sir Keir Starmer (for his tenure as Director of Public Prosecutions). This is very uncommon and, I believe, it would be very interesting to try and find these few notables. Some that come to mind are Sir Arnold Wilson, Sir Michael Foster and Sir Hedworth Meux. What do you think?--The Theosophist (talk) 05:23, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I do not think it is historically so rare for MPs to be ready-knighted although it is rare in the present day, usually because of the younger age at which so many MPs enter Parliament for the first time and (some sport stars apart) the greater age at which men are usually knighted - primarily MPs for county seats were chosen from knights (hence Knight of the Shire). There would have to be a cut-off point.Cloptonson (talk) 05:43, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

It is not age that has made it more rare, but tĥe fact that most new MPs are nothing more than senior party members before election. Think of it, when someone is knighted before entering the House, this (most likely) means that he excelled in a field other than politics (e.g. science, law or the military). This has been much less common nowadays. On the other hand, before the 19th century, people would be knighted because of their power (not that I disagree, it was another era, after all), so there was always the occasional knight who had not really done anything. I believe that the cut-off point should be 1801.--The Theosophist (talk) 06:28, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I would recommend airing such a proposal in the talk page of the article itself so that other editors, particular those who impress me as being its 'elder statesmen', have a chance to comment as to whether that is the way they want to see the article go and invite help if they are interested. I only started to contribute to the article about 2 years ago and it never occurred to me to start a category about honours, as I saw the article as being about demographic factors (sex and age, deaths), physical attributes and parliamentary service and election achievements. I am about to make a new category section suggestion myself (husband and wife sets of MPs).Cloptonson (talk) 19:52, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I have, after announcing it in the talk page, created the section on Husband and Wife MPs, giving contenders for first couple sets (successive and concurrent), longest service of MPs as couple and greatest collective years of service in the Commons, and longest span of service. If you see any grounds for corrections you are welcome to make them. I have yet to find a couple who married when both were serving as MPs.Cloptonson (talk) 22:28, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

I think that there has been no instance of same-sex civil partners both serving in the House, right? Also, what about parent-child sets of MPs? There are a few that come to mind like Stephen Kinnock, Victoria Prentis, Ben Gummer, Bernard Jenkin, Nick Hurd, Robin Walker, Francis Maude and David Prior. Of course, this would be huge and should, also, have a cut-off point.--The Theosophist (talk) 09:56, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Also, as far as Kinnock is concerned, is it safe to assume that he is the first MP married to a foreign head of state or government?--The Theosophist (talk) 09:58, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Taking points in turn:

• No, not yet at any rate.

UPDATE: I have discovered Angela Eagle has a civil partner (not an MP).Cloptonson (talk) 20:57, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

• There is, I have discovered, a good and growing list article List of political families in the United Kingdom, which makes the need for such a list in Records of members of parliament of the United Kingdom redundant. (I have added at least one family to it, and consulted its list of married couple politicians (towards end of article) to inform the cases I have put in the latter article.

This list is missing many, many families. I may improve it a bit in the future.--The Theosophist (talk) 05:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

On the other hand, think of that: this list is about families many members of which became politicians. My examples above are just parent-child relations with no other family member leading a notable political career. These would most likely not fit this list and would warrant the creation of a new list.--The Theosophist (talk) 05:08, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

My feeling is that the list of political families is a better way forward for listing all occurrences of parent-child, sibling sets of MPs. However there is merit in having a section in Records of members of parliament on "Sibling Sets of MPs" that demonstrates, in the spirit of a collection of records rather than an "all and sundry" list, factors such as:

• Largest (number wise) set(s) of siblings MPs. Pairs are commonplace, have there been, say, more than three brothers?
• Collective service years given by set of siblings to the Commons.
• Longest concurrent/successive service span of sibling MPs.
• Mixed sex sibling sets.
• Longest representation of a constituency by a successive set of sibling MPs (a factor common in the days of 'pocket boroughs' and when two-member seats were the standard).
• Siblings currently serving together.

Half-siblings could also be looked at (example the Hogg-Marjoribanks pair.) Burke's Peerage would make a good starting point for looking up sibling MPs within families, as service as an M.P. is routinely declared.Cloptonson (talk) 19:25, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Following on, I realize that mother-daughter and sister sets of MPs have been so rare in our history they could be listed appropriately under the "Women" section of the page. Leave the brothers to have their section.Cloptonson (talk) 05:13, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

• Kinnock junior is first MP married to a foreign head of government (Prime Minister of Denmark, whose head of state is a monarch).

Generally speaking, I added the section on records relating to Husband-Wife sets of MPs as what I saw as a logical follow on from the section relating to women MPs.Cloptonson (talk) 18:32, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

By the way, I think that Tulip Siddiq is the first descendant of a modern foreign head of state to be elected to the House of Commons, no?--The Theosophist (talk) 05:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Her forebear (an uncle rather than direct ancestor) was head of state of an initial provisional government in Bangladesh but then apparently served as Prime Minister (head of government) when a state president had been elected. (I remember Mujib's face and name in our news in the 70s - never did I know one of his family would be in our parliament...)Cloptonson (talk) 19:06, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was not Siddiq′s uncle but her maternal grandfather. Sheikh Hasina is her aunt.--The Theosophist (talk) 19:20, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, I stand corrected. I misread the article, whose text was not always easy on the sight.Cloptonson (talk) 19:51, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Should we also create an LGBT section?--The Traditionalist (talk) 22:52, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

This question is best put out in the talk page of this article, to see what consensus there is in response. Personally, I would not bother starting one because indisputably known homosexual MPs or bisexual MPs are possibly an understatement, given that homosexual acts between men were punishable offences in Britain into the 1960s so there were a possible number 'in the closet'. I cannot see any potential record in the category other than first openly gay (those who voluntarily declared themselves in public and those whose homosexuality was forced into the open by being wanted or prosecuted for homosexual offences, traditionally termed 'sodomy') first openly bisexual, and first transgender. Then there are those who became seriously suspected of homosexuality posthumously as a result of modern scholarship.Cloptonson (talk) 20:34, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

• The Traditionalist, why is anybody's sexuality worthy of a separate section all of its own? More to the point, who really cares which side of the church they sing on? Cassianto^Talk 21:33, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: Well, you can say that for every section of the article. If the sexuality is not worthy, then why the gender is? Or the religion? Or the family relation? --The Traditionalist (talk) 22:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree, mostly. Religion is certainly not relevant. Why don't we go the whole hog and differentiate between vegetarians and carnivores; smokers and non-smokers; cyclists and car drivers? Cassianto^Talk 22:35, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: Religion is relevant. When you stress religion or ethnic background in such a list, you show the role minorities played, play and will play in politics. Moreover, these are social subjects and thus important in a person′s political career. Smoking is more personal.--The Traditionalist (talk) 22:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

P.S.

Of course matters of sexuality are of a more personal nature, but when people make them public (“come out”) they become social on the spot.--The Traditionalist (talk) 22:46, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

We are in the 21st century. I don't see why people feel as if they have to "come out"? Who really cares? If someone decides that they are gay, why do they feel the need to broadcast it to the world? The world no longer cares. In this day and age, people should feel as if they can just get on with life and form relationships with whoever they want, without having to make such a song and dance about it. Such a display of "look at me, I'm gay" is dated, boring and nothing new in my opinion. For that reason, I'd say this is irrelevant to this article. Cassianto^Talk 23:40, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: If you really want to discuss this, you can send an e-mail to Sir Alan Duncan. The fact that it does happen is encyclopedic, whether you like that it happens or not.--The Traditionalist (talk) 23:51, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

And I would like to add that this is your personal view and it is not based on Wikipedia policy.--The Traditionalist (talk) 23:52, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

That has to be the most ridiculous thing I have heard today! Congratulations! Cassianto^Talk 23:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: You are arguing with someone called “The Traditionalist”. What did you expect?--The Traditionalist (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Whose arguing? And why do you assume I am? Do you not know the difference between a discussion and an argument? Cassianto^Talk 00:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: Why do so many people always take “argument” as a synonym for “quarrel”? The main definiton for this word is “A fact or statement used to support a proposition; a reason.”^[1]. Are you not using statements to support propositions?--The Traditionalist (talk) 00:12, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Thank god I've got people like you to teach me the definitions of everyday words. Cassianto^Talk 00:19, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

@Cassianto: If you do not want them to do that, do not make accusations.--The Traditionalist (talk) 00:22, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

When I want your advice I'll ask for it; until then, carry on talking in gibberish and providing an answer for the sake of providing an answer, without it making much sense at all. Your responses now have deviated so much off of the initial subject and into the world of incoherent bullshit that I've now lost interest. This will be my last post so don't bother to ping me as I shall ignore you. Cassianto^Talk 06:55, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

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Should reference be made to the peculiar case of Sir Edward Greene, 1st Baronet and Sir Raymond Greene, 2nd Baronet, a father-son set where the son was elected to Parliament before the father?--The Traditionalist (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

I had not contemplated collecting incidents of sons entering the Commons ahead of fathers, but as they are not commonplace in comparison to sons following fathers, that may be worth putting in as unusual.Cloptonson (talk) 21:28, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Cloptonson. You know, I have not forgotten our conversation a couple of weeks ago about whether William Hazlitt should be categorized as an "English Unitarian". I have never thought much about the criteria for categorization, but you raised an interesting question. You wrote: "Did not realize he had renounced his faith neither did I know the list would have excluded defectors from it." At the time, I thought, that's right, he was a defector, so he shouldn't have been listed. While I still believe this to be the case, it also occurred to me that I don't know that I ever really read any Wikipedia rules or guidelines about such matters.

So, having a bit more free time than usual over the holidays, I just looked around and found this, which I point out as an FYI. In WP:CAT/R: "For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate." And in WP:BLPCAT: "Categories regarding religious beliefs (or lack of such) ... should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief ... in question, and the subject's beliefs ... are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources."

I'm not sure that these guidelines are always correctly followed, but they are something to keep in mind. An example would be the contrast between the writers Alexander Pope and James Joyce. Pope was born and died in the Catholic Church, so it is more appropriate to include him under the category "English Roman Catholics". I can still see how some might argue against it, as he didn't to my knowledge write anything specifically Catholic in nature, it was not part of his "notability"; nevertheless, he was identified consistently as a Catholic. Joyce, on the other hand, was known as a "lapsed" Catholic (though some have disputed that), and he is, correctly in my opinion, not included among "Irish Roman Catholics". Regarding Hazlitt, "reliable published sources" certainly do not assert any more than that he was influenced by his father (though not in any specifically Unitarian way) and by what he learned in a Unitarian college; neither do they claim that Unitarianism had anything to do with Hazlitt's notability as a writer. I am sharing these thoughts now because I see that you are serious about your Wikipedia contributions, and thinking further about this might be of some interest to you. Again, I'm sure that categorization has not always been consistent, and there is no doubt much that could be disputed in many instances. I am just "thinking out loud" about all this. Have a Happy New Year! Regards, Alan W (talk) 07:32, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Thank-you for spotting those headings.81.149.141.199 (talk) 20:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello, I've spotted that you've added one-sentence sections entitled "churchyard" to various articles about Anglesey churches. Please don't do this. MOS:PARAGRAPHS says "The number of single-sentence paragraphs should be minimized, since they can inhibit the flow of the text; ... Short paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheading;..." It would be better just to work the mention of a war grave into an appropriate point in the existing text. And it would be helpful if you could make your references follow the existing format, per WP:CITEVAR. Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 20:16, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you - good guidance. The format I have used for citation links to the CWGC has been my accustomed way, on which no one has previously picked me up, in articles elsewhere, but it is not immediately clear to me (yet - it may be later on if I have time to re-read it) from WP:CITEVAR how its preferred method could be applied.Cloptonson (talk) 21:19, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

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I have amended it, although I originally inserted it that way as an attempted short-cut, written as it was late night and full details of the book's particulars had already been added to the list of further reading.Cloptonson (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

I have removed the material you added to the above article which you had copied from the club website, which is a copyright web page. Sorry but we can't accept copyright content here. Everything has to be written in your own words please. — Diannaa (talk) 21:33, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

I noted your comment on Plimer's talk page. In fact the online DNB states Wellington, Shropshire, after Chapter 2 of Williamson's study, (1903). Will you update the article?. Kind regards. Apwoolrich (talk) 12:16, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

I have just consulted the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (hard copy). I will update the details. I have also checked Douglas J. Elliott's well researched work, Shropshire Clock and Watchmakers (1979) to find that Nathaniel, their father, a clockmaker, is recorded as working in Shropshire in Wellington and area with dates of 1750 to 1783. Andrew's name does not appear although he trained as a clockmaker himself.Cloptonson (talk) 11:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Hi, would welcome any views on my proposal on the talk page of Shrewsbury College of Arts and Technology as you're a regular Shropshire editor. Thanks Malevan (talk) 19:08, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

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Is it possible for you to use the {{cite web}} template for your citations. That's the form we normally use in Australian articles.

Instead of

<ref>[http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/202265/SOUTH%20ROCKHAMPTON%20CEMETERY]CWGC Cemetery report, details from casualty record.</ref>

could you put something like:

<ref>{{cite web|title=South Rockhampton Cemetery, with list of casualties|url=http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/202265/SOUTH%20ROCKHAMPTON%20CEMETERY|publisher=[[Commonwealth War Graves Commission]]|accessdate=14 December 2016}}</ref>

The easiest way to do this is to use Cite > Templates > Cite Web and then just fill in whichever fields are applicable. This will create a citation that looks like this:

"South Rockhampton Cemetery, with list of casualties". Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Retrieved 14 December 2016.

Thanks Kerry (talk) 02:37, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

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You added this category to the List of UK monarchy records but I believe you got it wrong...it appears from the List of British monarchs by longevity that the age difference between George II and his grandson George III was actually a day or two longer than that between Edward III and Richard II.(I didn't check the number of leap years).

What about reverse age difference (e.g. David II and Robert II of Scotland)?--L.E./12.144.5.2 (talk) 03:41, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

• I had overlooked these two Georges, I happily accept correction. I did not study the Scottish kings hence my appeal for other users to check there.Cloptonson (talk) 05:19, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

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Hi, if you have additional information on this subject and can provide sources for it, please feel free to expand the article. If you need help with it, see WP:WPSCVH/AG or ask me on my talk page.

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Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:15, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your patient work on this. I had a go at adding to the history and widening the sources fairly recently, so it was very much in need of a good proof read. Sjwells53 (talk) 22:17, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

I was pleased to see someone has been able to start an article on the church in its own right, after comments I made on the talk page of the village article.Cloptonson (talk) 22:26, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne / I've commented further; only 4 years late!PatrickGuinness (talk) 10:20, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from one or more pages into George Leveson-Gower, 1st Duke of Sutherland. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. buidhe 23:15, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi Cloptonson. I read on one of the local newspaper sites today (either the Argus or Brighton and Hove News) that it was Woodvale Crematorium, which is the main one of the two. Tomorrow I will check which site it was and will add something to the Woodvale section accordingly (also to the Dame Vera Lynn article if appropriate). Cheers, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 21:12, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

While you're at it, if someone else hasn't got there first, you could also write the crematorium's identity into the Vera Lynn article under section Death.Cloptonson (talk) 06:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I've updated both articles using a BBC News reference. Cheers, Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 11:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Please stop adding unsourced entries, that's three I've seen you add in the past few days, one of which I referenced for you... GiantSnowman 21:04, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Please allow me time to input sources; when I work between articles I usually add the information in size suitable for the article I am editing, THEN copy in the citation. I may not be as nippy with my copy and paste techniques as others; who condemns a building before the builder is given time to put the roof on the walls? I thank you for adding the source to Julius Hirsch as I had copied citations but did not paste them when I saw (and was pleased with) what you had already done.Cloptonson (talk) 21:15, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I have again had to a reference for you. There is no excuse saying you were going to add it in a later edit, you MUST include the source in the edit when you add the information, that is basic stuff. GiantSnowman 20:44, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

This is no lie - I did go to Eddy Hamel's article to copy a citation and was going to paste in the entry I had just done when I found someone else - you it turns out - had already put it in. For this I sincerely thank you. Please be magnanimous to people who may not be as quick and efficient in their technique as you are but who at heart do share the same interest in wanting to build an interesting article. I am sure we are on the same side in this regard. In your shoes I would have been generous and allowed, say 24 hours for a citation to be added before taking steps to delete it and criticise it as unreferenced. I do not want to be in an edit war or race with anybody. Copying and pasting is something I find painstaking enough without being made nervous with fears that during the time I turn out to take some other and less patient user might totally rub out the information I was intending to add the citation to. In short I ask please don't be too quick on the draw, your recent interventions (leaving apart your agreement that the nationalities should be alphabetically arranged)− left me feeling 'shot on sight'. For all you may know I may be in a different physical condition and age (I am 61 and a medication controlled epileptic) to yourself. You are clearly a user who seems confident enough to do everything in one go, not everybody else is but the point is -THEY GET THERE. It is ironic we are discussing these things when we have been editing an article relating to a war supposedly caused by a few men who were notoriously intolerant of people of other abilities and thought the place in the sun belonged to them alone.~~Cloptonson (talk) 21:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

As I have said - you must include the source at the same time as you make the edit. All you need to do is add the reference before you hit 'publish changes', what is so difficult about that? GiantSnowman 19:29, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Just to send a quick courtesy apology for reverting you on Charlie Napier unnecessarily. The change did need to be put back as I found no evidence to support it, but was a single-edit IP who actually made the change and you just tidied it up in good faith, so there was no need on my part to revert you (as it didn't revert the IP anyway) which in my own experience can sometimes be irritating when it appears on your page. So sorry if that was the case here. Crowsus (talk) 14:25, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	Thank you for the dedicated work on improving the List of footballers killed during World War II article. Lettlerhello • contribs 01:41, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. BTW, did you put a Service Award logo in my User Page? It looks as if a corrective tweak may be in order as it is not displaying properly.Cloptonson (talk) 07:06, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@Cloptonson: I didn't put a service award logo on your user page. Lettler^{hello • contribs} 02:25, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I only assumed you did - it can't have been me because I have put no illustrations into my user page for years. Leaves me baffled who to ask.Cloptonson (talk) 05:45, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I never put anything on your page Mr Hall of England (talk) 21:44, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Don't want a Wagatha do we (Joke)?! Stay Safe Mr Hall of England (talk) 21:47, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Local_Embassy#Frans_Alfred_Meeng_-_can_someone_translate_his_service_details_from_Dutch? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SteelerFan1933 (talk • contribs) 19:50, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes please. I would also welcome a translation for the apparent rank description 'Gep. Elt." in connection with the Eddy de Neve who is subject of the page from the Dutch war graves website: https://www.oorlogsgravenstichting.nl/persoon/109570/eduard-karel-alexander-de-neve . This man is a likely candidate for the Eddy de Neve who was the first player to score a goal as a Dutch football international.Cloptonson (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

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Hi Clops. I reckon Edouard Van Brandt is a strong candidate for your deaths in WWII list. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you but a general google turned up a (translated) Dutch language blogspot article, which does not mention if he did any military service. The writer stated that according to Van Brandt's family, his death in Antwerp was due to a ruptured stomach caused by a football game injury. More investigation needed, I could not find an article in Dutch wikipedia.Cloptonson (talk) 18:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I notice his article in French wikipedia says he was 'killed during the conflict' but the citation used does not indicate the cause or place of his death.Cloptonson (talk) 09:06, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

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Hi, I thought you might like to know that David Benedictus's Lloyd George is available to borrow on Archive.org. You'll need an account, but that is free, and there are many useful works on there. The link for the book is https://archive.org/details/lloydgeorge0000bene All the best, DuncanHill (talk) 02:25, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

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I see your interest in this topic and have created a Scottish Women's Hospitals for Foreign Service grouped navbox with IanTheArchivist (talk · contribs). It needs to auto-collapse and of course red-link articles that are being worked upon. We are both happy to take any advice or suggestions but are not wiki-source-skilled editors.

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I am Petros Apostolopoulos, a Ph.D. candidate in Public History at North Carolina State University. My Ph.D. project examines how historical knowledge is produced on Wikipedia. If you are interested in participating in my research study by offering your own experience of writing about history on Wikipedia, you can click on this link https://ncsu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_9z4wmR1cIp0qBH8. There are minimal risks involved in this research.

If you have any questions, please let me know. Petros Apostolopoulos, paposto@ncsu.edu Apolo1991 (talk) 14:59, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you but I notice you require respondents to be US residents, which I never have been.Cloptonson (talk) 06:39, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

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Thanks for tweaks. "She had a tomb erected in Montgomery church where her husband was buried in 1600." ... know anyone who could get a picture? Happy new year. Victuallers (talk) 09:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

@Victuallers - You are aware there is a picture of the tomb (albeit an 18th century engraving) in the article on Richard Herbert, Lord of Cherbury. I have no camera so could not take a photo although I have visited Montgomery Church recently.Cloptonson (talk) 13:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

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George Boscawen, 9th Viscount Falmouth died on 3 March 2022 according to Wikipedia. Is that vandalism? Or did he really die? How can we find out? He was over 100 years old so it is very plausible that he died. Charliestalnaker (talk) 23:10, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I know no source of this and I did not think it vandalism. Look out for obituaries from papers like the Times or Daily Telegraph.Cloptonson (talk) 07:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I wrote to The Guardian and they said that he is a private person so they will not be publishing an obituary. However, they didn't confirm to me that he is actually dead.

This concerns me because we have no proof that Lord Falmouth is dead. Saying a living person is dead is wicked Wikipedia vandalism. Saying he is alive if he is dead is also vandalism. What should we do? I don't think a "(1919-possibly 2022 and possibly still living)" is a good solution?

ANI is very fickle. Report it there and you might be punished. Not a clear case of AIV Charliestalnaker (talk) 17:30, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I would be less inclined to consult The Guardian, my reading experience shows the Daily Telegraph and Times have apparently more propensity to publish obituaries/death notices of British aristocrats, especially politically Conservative ones. Another likely source could be Cornish newspapers.Cloptonson (talk) 17:54, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Good morning to you, from Portugal,

please read my reply to you at WP:FOOTY, if i get the gist correctly this list is only supposed to contain "personnel" whose (manner of) death is uncertain/unreferenced, at least regarding their connection with their respective country's military forces and/or demise. If so, my addition of Alexandre Villaplane was not 100% correct, since those aforementioned topics are sources in his article.

Continue the good work, take care and sorry for any (possible) inconvenience! --193.137.135.2 (talk) 09:18, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

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@DPL bot 2601:541:580:83E0:6C26:39E1:D5F9:8E49 (talk) 14:32, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your thorough reading and useful changes to the Bethell article. Re the “buried in Craven Arms“ point, I have contacted the church just now, and they were very helpful and say they will get back to me within a week or so if they can find him in the burial records. The reason I know he is buried in Craven Arms is the daughter left a biographical note, which is in possession of the current family - but I was nervous of using that as a reference because I would be told off for 'primary material'. What do you think? Charles.bowyer (talk) 16:33, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I understand published evidence is preferably welcomed, I wonder if there was a newspaper obituary of him mentioning his funeral? Cloptonson (talk) 16:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)(talk) 16:39, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

I have one obituary from the Gurkha times - unfortunately it doesn't mention burial place. It looks like the Shropshire local papers can only be seen in Shropshire, so I will have to wait for the reply from the church. Charles.bowyer (talk) 13:05, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I wonder if the church magazine mentioned it, if there is an archive of these. Back then, those for parishes in my area of Shropshire were commercially printed by a Shrewsbury firm called Wilding's - what of Craven Arms area, I wonder. The Shropshire Archives at Shrewsbury might also be a helpful go-to. They may not have the relevant newspaper files but they may know a place that has. In 1950 the Shrewsbury Chronicle (still in print) had a wide circulation and coverage area in the county as far south as Craven Arms and Ludlow, likewise the Wellington Journal and Shrewsbury News (printed at Wellington, now part of Telford) which was in circulation until the early 60s.Cloptonson (talk) 17:27, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that - my problem is that these need to be done in Shropshire / Shrewsbury - and it will be a while before I can go there. I will wait and hope for the Church answer ! Charles.bowyer (talk) 11:29, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I have an email from the Churchwarden at St. Swithin's Church, Clunbury, saying that Bethell is in their burial record, 1950. (I can send the email if wanted). Do you think that will be adequate for the reference ? Charles.bowyer (talk) 17:18, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

The question is best put out to the Wikipedia community rather than just myself (lack experience to qualify me to comment) about acceptability for publication by Wikipedia. That revelation definitely though places the location of his burial a few miles and out of view of Craven Arms town. In light of your discovery I have deleted mention of burial for the meantime.Cloptonson (talk) 17:23, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

How do I put it to the Wikipedia community ? (I also am inexperienced !). Charles.bowyer (talk) 20:01, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

A good start could be WikiProjects Biography to put the question to them, and also consult WikiProject Shropshire where there may be fellow users who may know of published sources to corroborate. I also wonder if he may have had a death notice that reported his funeral venue. If he was a person of more than local to Shropshire importance he could have had one in a national newspaper like the Times and Daily Telegraph's deaths columns (which for some decades into the 20th century used to be on their front pages), put in for benefit of those living further afield who may have wanted to travel to Shropshire to pay their last respects.Cloptonson (talk) 06:07, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I finally got a burial record from Clunbury, and have modified the article accordingly. Charles.bowyer (talk) 17:13, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page Minsterley, may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows:

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Thank you, I have added the book title ("A History of Shropshire" which I had forgotten to add in the heat of writing.Cloptonson (talk) 07:40, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, as someone who has done a fair amount of work on the Shrewsbury article, could you have a look at it and see what you think of my latest efforts. Regards Murgatroyd49 (talk) 16:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you (speaking as one who has lived lifelong close to Shrewsbury and is familiar with much of its history), your input has been a vast improvement, greatly reducing the amount of 'citations needed'.Cloptonson (talk) 19:08, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, and corrections. I'm going out on a limb and going to propose it for GA assessment. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 19:13, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Go ahead, I feel you have strengthened its case for restoring the GA status it lost.Cloptonson (talk) 19:21, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello Cloptonson, I've just noticed your helpful recent contributions to articles which are within the scope of WikiProject Worcestershire. You might like to join us and help improve all articles relating to settlements, schools, major buildings, roads and other articles related to the county. You can help! by creating new articles, expanding stubs, adding photos, references, research topics, or even just by commenting on what the rest of us are doing. Do take a look at the project page, and don't hesitate to leave a message at our talk page and someone will get back to you. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 20:19, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I join with interest, Worcestershire has a certain draw as a neighbouring county to my native Shropshire, with which aspects of its history and geography link. I am familiar, from visiting, with Worcester, Bewdley, Tenbury Wells and Malvern.Cloptonson (talk) 20:58, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

I just noticed all your work expanding John Vincent Cain. (1) Thank you! (2) What a lovely example of the wiki-system as a platform for connecting different resources and editors. In any case, bravo you! jengod (talk) 22:11, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Cloptonson, as part of my work with WP:BDC, I noticed that we never gave you the proper invitation to join the Ten Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for ten years or more. You met the criteria years ago and I wish to address this oversight now. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:17, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I have preferred to wait for others to award me. Now I can add it to my awards list on my profile page.Cloptonson (talk) 17:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

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I've just come across your 2014 question under the heading Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima/Nagasaki - Friendly Fire Elements?. Googling for more info since I'd not heard/read about it before I noticed that although What did Truman know, and when did he know it? by Stanley Goldberg^[1] has Kotura almost every other mention I found, eg. Apocalypse Never ... by Tad Daley^[2] and Nagasaki ... by Craig Collie^[3] has Kokura. I wondered if your source was Goldberg or something else. Mcljlm (talk) 16:25, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Mcljlm, I recall I did initially put some information in about the friendly fire aspects but IIRC it was deleted and I accepted the editor's explanation, although it was then put in with the information you now see by others. I hadn't heard of Goldenburg and Kokura/Kotura, so can't comment.Cloptonson (talk) 18:10, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

You wrote "... Nagasaki (the latter not the initial intended target - Kotura was)". Mcljlm (talk) 00:31, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Mcljlm, sorry hadn't read your first question properly. I haven't had any books about the bombings so. from memory, what I said was informed by having read wiki articles on the bombings a number of years ago (within last 11)

. However the article may have moved on as things get added to or taken away. So again, I can comment no further.Cloptonson (talk) 17:13, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Hello, Cloptonson. Please check your email; you've got mail!
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Rose, thank you but this does not come within my range of WikiProjects. I think you are more likely to get helpful users who are more adept if you message the Talk Page of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography on English Wikipedia. Thank you.Cloptonson (talk) 18:10, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello Cloptonson, This is to let you know that one of your recent edit at Wrexham Cemetery caused a citation error. Do not add invalid url and use preview before saving your edit. Happy editing.––kemel49^{(connect)(contri)} 16:47, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Of course, many National Socialists were thin - but Speer was referring to party bosses, many of whom were portly - besides the obvious Goring, etc., many of the gauleiters, party members who were corporate heads, etc., were fat men. More testimony (and photographs) besides Speer's statements support this. 2603:6080:21F0:6870:1803:321B:9544:790E (talk) 19:52, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you. I have seen the direct quotation from the Spiegel interview but my German is not 100 per cent fluent, a translation would be appreciated.Cloptonson (talk) 20:03, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Nominations for the upcoming Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:02, 1 September 2025 (UTC)

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Hi, I've been patrolling spam blacklist hits and see you had a few edits blocked while trying to add the CWGC site. As far as I can tell, this was caused by an error that was blocking every domain that included "c.org". This has been fixed and you should be able to add the links now. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:53, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

Hi, I've just tried to add a CWGC citation link for the war graves at St Martin's Church, Canterbury, but am still experiencing this blockage.Cloptonson (talk) 17:10, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

It looks like the fix caused more problems, but the fix has been fixed. It should work now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:43, 5 January 2026 (UTC)

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